Driving & Reading After Concussion | Dr. Dan Myers
Show Notes:
Ever found yourself struggling with eye strain, focusing issues or peripheral vision problems after a concussion? We're excited to welcome Dr. Dan Myers, a seasoned optometrist and an expert in neuro optometry with over a decade of experience. His deep understanding of the human eye and brain functions opens up a world of possibilities for understanding concussions and post-concussion syndrome.
You'll be fascinated to know how our eyesight, especially peripheral vision, plays a major role in our sensory integration. Dr. Myers reveals the impact of concussion on peripheral vision and how it can turn regular tasks into stress-inducing activities. But there's a silver lining, indeed. Dr. Myers shares his arsenal of techniques that can assist in making reading and driving a less daunting task.
Wrapping up, we emphasize the importance of individualized treatment, because, let's face it, no two brains, or concussions, are the same.
Connect with Dr. Dan Myers https://www.everseeeye.com/
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Please note episode transcriptions may not be 100% accurate!
Bella Paige
Host
00:03
Hi everyone. I'm your host, Bella Paige, and after suffering from post concussion syndrome for years, it was time to do something about it. So welcome to the post concussion podcast, where we dig deep into life when it doesn't go back to normal. Be sure to share the podcast and join our support network, Concussion Connect. Let's make this invisible injury become visible. The Post Concussion Podcast is strictly an information podcast about concussions and post concussion syndrome. It does not provide nor substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or another qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. The opinions expressed in this podcast are simply intended to spark discussion about concussions and post concussion syndrome. Welcome to episode 119 of the Post Concussion Podcast with myself, Bella Paige and today's guest, Dr Dan Myers.
01:16
Dr Myers, an optometrist with over 10 years, is seasoned in both traditional eye care and neuro optometry. Having spent time in hospital, clinical and retail settings, dr Myers has helped children and adults see, feel and look better using optical techniques. His philosophy is to look at each patient's individual needs and create a plan to help them through with the use of traditional eye care, neuro optometry methods and lens and frame selection. Dr Myers learned and studied under a world renowned neuro optometrist and methods to use optometry to improve the brain and functions it controls. He then opened his own office in Winnetka, illinois, where he sees and examines those with learning challenges and others with symptoms from concussions and other neurological problems. As a graduate of the University of Kansas, Dr Myers is a diehard Jayhawk fan. He received his Doctor of Optometry from the University of Missouri, st Louis. He currently resides in Highland Park, illinois, where he enjoys running beer, basketball and raising his two little ones. Welcome, dan.
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
02:20
Hi Bella, I'm so happy to be here today.
Bella Paige
Host
02:22
So, to start, do you want to tell us a little bit about what created your interest in helping and treating concussion survivors?
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
02:29
Sure, my career has actually changed a lot since I graduated from school. Originally, I joined a private practice that was primarily contact lens specialty center, where people would go if they had uniquely shaped eyes and general contact lenses, like soft contact lenses, didn't fit so well. I was taking care of a lot of people with cataracts, with glaucoma, with dry eyes, and it was great. I really really enjoyed it. I also worked in a hospital where I took care of similar patients and early in my career I did come across a few people that had concussions or brain injuries, but at that point in my career I didn't know how to take care of them effectively. I specifically remember this really, really nice lady from Minnesota and every year she'd come in and she'd tell me about the way things used to be before her accident. This is about 10 years ago and at that point I had no idea that there were so many options and optometry to help these sort of people.
03:35
I moved to Chicago about seven years ago and I started working with this woman who taught me not only how to treat patients with concussions or brain injuries, but to look at patients in a whole new way.
03:47
Once I started working with these patients, I started to look at optometry completely differently. Who knew optometrists could help patients with symptoms like being overwhelmed in a grocery store and anxiety? There's so many things we can do. Those patients who come in with concussion symptoms they don't say make me see better. They say I want to feel better. They know something's changed and their environment is not as comfortable to them as it was before. I never looked back. It honestly was so much more gratifying in helping and improving these patients' lifestyles than just giving them glasses or contact lenses to make their eyesight better. I guess I saw enough people who had a similar story and then that happened like a concussion and they saw everyone under the sun that they were referred to and they just weren't getting better. So I really enjoy helping these people and using all the tools that optometry has in order to do it.
Bella Paige
Host
04:42
I really like that I think it's true Like when I would go to an optometrist or mine. It wasn't that I couldn't see, I already had glasses that I already used to be able to see, like you know, the board in school books, just anything, and I needed something more. You know, I would read books and my eyes would hurt and I couldn't keep up with reading because it would cause headaches or like all these things. Or the grocery store like you mentioned. It's funny that you mentioned that because we released a comic last month.
05:14
We do a monthly comic on Concussion Connect and in the comic it's like the girl that's the main character in all the comics with the brain and they walk into a grocery store and the brain is like no, not today. And then they walk back out and they're like good choice, like you know, and it kind of just reminds me of like grocery stores are a really big one where it's just too much, it's commonly brought up, where people like I can't go to the grocery store, which is supposed to be. Like you know something, you're not supposed to think about you just, but when after a brain injury, after a concussion, things kind of change. So when we talked before. We talked about something called peripheral vision, and for me it was more like I would walk into things all the time. But do you want to talk about how peripheral vision really does have to do with, like sensory integration, with how we talked about? You know, the grocery store being way too much?
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
06:05
Oh sure. So peripheral eyesight has a huge role and it's not really looked at very much in optometry. There is conscious peripheral eyesight and subconscious peripheral eyesight. So when I'm looking at a screen, I can pick something on the screen and see it, but there's a lot more signals going into your eyes than just what you're looking at and that's your subconscious peripheral eyesight. So 100% of the time, signals are going to your eyes and they're sending your brain signals. And if they're sending your brain bad signals, then your peripheral eyesight is sending your brain maybe some good signals, maybe some bad signals, but it can create some stress, it can create some disorder and that's a lot of the things that are happening for people after they've got concussions.
06:55
So peripheral eyesight we have central eyesight, which is our classic 2020 eyesight, and we have peripheral eyesight, which is pretty much everything else. So you go to the traditional optometrist, you get a prescription that corrects your eyes for 2020 eyesight. Everybody cares about 2020 eyesight. I get it. It's important. People talk about it, but we have to assess the peripheral eyesight for people that are more sensitive.
Bella Paige
Host
07:18
Yeah, so how do they do that? Most people know what peripheral eyesight is. It's outside of that, like direct vision line, but how would you even test that?
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
07:26
You got it. So when I think of the periphery, it's peripheral eyesight and you have to include your ears too. It's all the sensory signals going into your brain. So you have peripheral eyesight, which is what you're seeing and sometimes what you're not seeing, and you have your awareness of space that's around you. That's kind of what your ears are telling you as well.
07:46
So when I see patients, when I do my testing, we have to test their eyes and we have to test their ears at the same time. And we're not doing any hearing tests, we're not testing can they hear, can they not hear? We're testing different lenses, different options to see how that's gonna affect the signaling that's going into each patient's brain and it's not really a one size fit all manner. You know, every single person comes in, every person has a different brain and every person is going to either do well or do poorly with certain lenses. So we test them, we test eyes, we test ears and we test their awareness of their surroundings and we see what specific lenses is gonna make them the most comfortable.
Bella Paige
Host
08:31
I really like the individuality of it, because I think it's really important with concussion care and brain injury care, because all the time we think, oh well, this worked for so many people but everyone is so different. And that's where it's really important to really think about what you have issues with. Like I wasn't walking into things on the left side, I was only walking into things with my right shoulder, to the point where, like every doorframe some days I'd be like how can I not figure out where these are? I'd be like I grew up in this house and I'm running into the walls, like someone explained this to me. So it's definitely something that can be really frustrating.
09:08
I'm sure some people have it a lot worse than I did. I didn't really notice that it was my eyes at first, you know, I just always thought I was just off, I guess, if that makes sense, like I just didn't feel balanced, like if I close my eyes I'd fall over, I could never stand on one foot, like those types of things, because I just tip. But it is something that can be really helpful when we think about things like daily tasks, like from the grocery store to driving, and driving is something I want to talk about today, because some people either have no problem with it at all or it's a nightmare after their concussion and they actually become afraid to drive.
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
09:48
Yeah, driving is pretty tough for some people after they've had a head injury or concussions and it's because we've taken a lot of sensory information when we're driving. Even if, even if you're driving through a scene with not not so many things, you're still moving and as you move, your periphery is taking in information. You could be watching the car in front of you, could watch the horizon, you could be looking straight ahead the trees, the signs, the other cars that go by. That's a stimuli that's going by. Your periphery is sending that your brain signals. For most people They've adapted, they have visual skills, they have no problem doing that. But when you have a very, very hypersensitive periphery, it's really uncomfortable when you deal with something like that.
Bella Paige
Host
10:34
So if you do deal with something like that, we've mentioned peripheral vision, so what can you do about it? You get the testing done. Now what?
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
10:43
Well, there's a lot of stuff we can do with our periphery. So I've listened to your podcast in the past. I know your listeners. They all know about your nervous system. They know about the autonomic nervous system and the branches with parasympathetic, with the sympathetic. So we know that lots of people who had concussions have a hypersensitive sympathetic nervous system. They're in fight or flight. They're uncomfortable, but our nervous system is connected with the periphery. Our peripheral retina is connected with the nervous system. If our periphery is oversensitive, we potentially can be in fight or flight.
11:21
I like to prescribe lenses to my patients that not only helps them be more comfortable driving, but it helps calm their overall nervous system. And we can do that with lenses. There's different types of lenses. They may not make you see super, super sharp, but they'll make you feel comfortable and if driving is an issue, we try to use these lenses. That will help you feel more calm. They'll help you feel less stressed. When you're more calm on that stress, driving will be easier and even if certain signals are being sent that normally bugged you, you should be able to drive a little more efficiently.
Bella Paige
Host
11:56
And so these lenses. Something that there's buzzwords in the concussion world is prisms. So are they prisms? Are they like prisms? Well, they're different.
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
12:06
It's really funny because I've come across so many people and lots of people talk about prisms and some people are. It's almost like they're two sides of the table. Some people are on pro-prisms and some people are absolutely against prisms. It was a couple of weeks ago. I met with a family this was for a child, for a more of a learning case. At the very very end she asked are there other prisms in the glasses? We go to a certain therapist and the therapist says she won't see us anymore if there's prisms in their lenses. So I think over time prisms have got a bad rap, but again it's on an individual basis. So not every lens that we do has prisms. Not every lens that we do has power in it. It's again it's on that individual basis. So some people may need it.
12:51
Some prism I've seen people makes a huge difference. Other people they've tried prisms in it. I remember a couple of weeks ago this one woman put on prism Not her glasses, just like these little goggles and it made her really uncomfortable. So prism is not for everyone. It makes your eyes do a reflex movement, it might change your chin position, and so some people are it's good for, some people it's not good for. And these lenses they may or may not have prism, they may or may not have lenses. We use filters as well. Filters can help dampen certain signals. So people who are very hypersensitive to the periphery, dampening certain signals that go into the brain can be very comfortable for them as well.
Bella Paige
Host
13:37
I like that answer because you're right Prisms like people are like I need prisms and they go get them. And then there's the opposite, where people like prisms are terrible. So there's definitely both sides of the bandwagon, but that's pretty normal. But I'd like you know the approach of that. It really depends on what your situation is. Not everyone needs them, but maybe you do. So that's really important.
14:02
And something I really want to talk about today, because it was one of my biggest challenges, is reading. But we are going to get into reading, why reading can be so challenging, what we can do about it and some treatments behind it. Right after the break. Did you want to create awareness about concussions? You can check out our entire clothing line through the link in the episode description or go to our website, postconcussioninc.com and click awareness merch from t-shirts, sweaters, tank tops and multiple designs, including the podcast.
14:37
Nothing mild about a concussion and more. Make sure to pause this episode right now and order yours before you forget, just like I would Welcome back to the postconcussion podcast with my self-built page and today's guest, Dr Dan Myers. So something I wanted to talk about was reading, because reading has been something I struggled with for a really long time From. I couldn't look at the page to. I would look at the words and they go blurry to just so many things, so many challenges, a lot of fatigue. Or I'd read a page and my brain would hurt. So there's a long list on reasons of what I couldn't read, but it is something a lot of people deal with. So do we want to get into a little bit about you know why, the treatments and all that?
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
15:23
Sure. Well, let's first talk about what happens when we do read. So first, we know that concussions can really disrupt people's ability to read. When you read, you have to take your eyes, you have to aim them, you have to point them. You have to constantly scan from letter to letter or words to words. You constantly have to judge the space. You have to aim and point your eyes. At the same time, you have to process and comprehend everything that you're reading. And if you're a really good reader, you have to make pictures in your head about what's happening when you're reading. Otherwise you're going to forget everything that you've already read and you do this over and over and over. So I would say, usually for a top five list, difficulty reading is usually up there for people exhibiting concussion symptoms. I can't really remember anyone coming in saying, yeah, yeah, reading is no problem, reading is really, really easy. So a lot of the times when I see patients, we talk about goals and readings up there.
16:20
What I like to do is try to figure out and determine why people are having a hard time reading. So we talked about judgment of space. Sometimes that's the reason. Sometimes it's the hypersensitive periphery. You're trying to take your eyes. You're trying to look at letters and words, but your eyes are sending your brain other information about other stuff, and it's easily to get distracted. You get distracted and you start thinking about something else. Your mind wanders. You can get distracted internally. Externally, you could hear people next to you making sounds. You could hear a car go make a sound. Outside. You could start thinking about what you're going to have for dinner the next day. There's so many reasons why reading is hard, and a lot of lenses that we use can make reading a lot more easy and a lot more effective.
Bella Paige
Host
17:08
I like the. You know that we can't tune things out essentially right Like that. Filtering process can disappear for a lot of people I know. If I go back to when I was 14, before I'll just start it I could sit in a room I grew up with a very loud house full of siblings and their friends and they could run around, have the TV on, somebody could be cooking, there could be yelling and I wouldn't hear a thing. I could just sit there, I wouldn't even notice them run by me and I would just be in my book like I'd be reading, enjoying my time, with all the hectic craziness going on, because I've always been, I guess, the odd one out in the family sitting there reading a book instead of running around like crazy. It really is something a lot of people do struggle with. Like you said, it's not really something people skip. There's always differences in recovery and maybe what bugs people about reading, but I do find most people do struggle with it for sure.
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
18:08
So when I examine people who want to improve their reading, we like to look at lenses, we like to look at filters, we like to look at visual skills too. That's a little bit different than vision therapy, which there's definitely a place for vision therapy working with eye movements, moving your eyes out and but for visual skills that's something that vision therapy doesn't do. Visual skills are a little bit different from vision therapy. There are more activities that you can do kind of in your head, or thinking activities or judgment of space, activities that are similar skills to reading, but much, much easier.
18:45
It's kind of hard to tell someone who's had an injury oh, you're reading, just go read a book and get better when it's really, really difficult to read even a line or a paragraph. But if you're just thinking about stuff in your head and you're doing these certain activities, it's way easier to do. So that's usually part of the treatment to improve yourself. Do these visual skills, and it translates nicely to when you actually do want to read. All of a sudden you can do it with a lot less effort.
Bella Paige
Host
19:11
I really like that. Nobody's ever mentioned that before. Over 100 episodes in. Always interesting things come up. Vision therapy is talked about widely, especially on social media it's kind of everywhere but visual skills is definitely something that nobody's really focused on. So can you give us an example of what a skill could be that somebody would practice?
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
19:34
Well, sure. So when you read, you multitask, because we talk about moving our eyes and thinking simultaneously. After concussion, that's kind of hard to do. So we give you a simple multitasking activity like moving your legs, you're moving your arms and talking at the same time, or counting and talking, something that you actually have to think about, something you have to do a motor movement about, which is the same kind of movement as your eyes, but it's way less effort than actual reading. So you do a task that's kind of difficult but in your alley of ability, and it helps build a visual skill.
Bella Paige
Host
20:11
I think that's really great. We were talking about how we get these glasses or lenses that can help, and so are these lenses supposed to be a permanent fix, something that people try out for a little while. What's the process in that?
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
20:27
That's a good question. There are two different types of glasses. There are glasses for people who need to see. So, with all the people who've had concussions, there's definitely people like you who have worn glasses all their life and need glasses to see. I also see a lot of people a lot of kids, lots of adults who've never worn glasses in their life. And when we use glasses as a therapeutic tool to improve symptoms from concussions, usually it's temporary and I would love to tell you how temporary it is. But everyone again is different. Some people need them for a few months, some people need them for a couple of years and whenever I tell someone my guess, it's usually wrong, like why am I ever? One guy came in and I said that probably eight months and he came back two or three months later and he's like my headaches are better. I feel great. I try not to guess.
Bella Paige
Host
21:19
That's fair. I get a lot of people ask me I'm dealing with all this, how long do you think it'll take me to get better, or how long do you think it'll take for me to notice if I start this therapy and I'm like number one no MD, here, I'm number two who know? Like even your therapist can't always know. I actually like that, because something I encourage people a lot is to go to the medical professionals that don't promise how fast you'll get better, because the ones that actually know how this works know that there is no, we don't know. We can assume, kind of guess, like oh, you should feel better by a certain time, but most people that promise you know what You'll be better in a month, like everything will be perfect, usually they're missing a few things that you need to do.
22:05
Something I really liked that you said on the break was about the calmness. So you know, brain injuries, concussions, it's exhausting. You can feel really tired, really overwhelmed. You know there's just so many new things going on and just relaxing and feeling calm almost feels at a reach because all the things you used to do, maybe to feel calm, are kind of gone. So how does calmness become a goal with vision?
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
22:34
Well, because we talked about earlier how your eyes are connected to your nervous system. So we can use the lenses as tools for many things, but also as a tool to calm your nervous system. So everyone's different and everybody's treatment plan is a little bit different as well. One of my goals for when people come in and they're in fight or flight, one of my goals is first, we have to make them feel more calm. That's usually what we try to do first, because we can give them glasses to make them see better. We can make them give them glasses to read better. But if they're stressed, if their sympathetic nervous system is overstimulated, that's not going to make them feel any better. So they first need to feel calm, they need to feel relaxed. Once that happens, then a lot of things can come along nicely. So we use the lenses, the different way that the lenses are made, to help calm the nervous system.
Bella Paige
Host
23:25
Yeah, I think that's a really good goal of vision therapy, because I think, or vision help, because I think a lot of time we go in not really knowing what we're going to get, like why are we doing this? What's the point? And I think calmness is a really good one. It's a good selling point, I guess, on how it can help, and we've talked about a lot from peripheral vision and driving problems, reading problems, how these are really common across survivors, how there's lenses, there's skills. Now that we've added to our list of things on the podcast, and so is there anything else you would like to add before ending today's episode?
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
24:08
For the survivors, for everybody who's experienced an injury and experienced a concussion. Sometimes it's tough to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it's tough to keep a positive outlook, but I think that's really, really important too. I tell all my patients it's going to get better. It's not going to be like this forever. We wish those symptoms are as quick as possible. Unfortunately, sometimes they last a long time. Sometimes they last a week, sometimes they're months, sometimes they're years. But things do get better and there's always new things and non-invasive things to try. There's so many different options now. There's a lot of research going on, but most people don't think about having their eyes checked or going to specialty sort of service like an optometrist or a neuro-optometrist and have their peripheral eyesight evaluated, and that's something that survivors should know as an option if they're not getting better, as a treatment plan.
Bella Paige
Host
25:04
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, because usually we just do our 2020 check, like you said, and if we don't need that, we're like, oh, we're all good. But there is a lot more to it than that and I really like that. You mentioned there's new things. I think that's the best part about now, versus over 10 years ago, when I started is the research is getting better. It's continuing. There's new things. I always tell people I'm like who knows what will come out next year? It's changing all the time. Old research, new research it keeps coming out, which is really beneficial for everyone who's dealing with symptoms right now. So I just want to thank you so much for joining us today and sharing some of your work with eyes after concussion.
Dr. Dan Myers
Guest
25:45
It was my pleasure.
Bella Paige
Host
25:47
Need more than just this podcast. Be sure to check out our website postconcussioninc.com, to see how we can help you in your post concussion life, from a support network to one-on-one coaching. I believe life can get better because I've lived through it. Make sure you take it one day at a time.
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