Making Movement for Concussed Athletes with Seth & Ryan
Show Notes:
Join us for a talk with Seth and Ryan, two brave leaders who have walked the path of PCS. Their journey takes us through the labyrinth of physical and mental symptoms, giving us a look at the profound impacts of concussions.
Educating individuals about concussions is pivotal in paving the road to recovery. Seth and Ryan, through their nonprofit, HeadsUpCAN, are on a mission! We highlight their upcoming event, set to happen at the BMO Field in Toronto, THE SPORT RELATED CONCUSSION EXPERIENCE. It's not a crusade against sports, but rather an effort to equip athletes, coaches, and care providers with the latest information on concussions.
Coaches hold a significant influence in an athlete's life. We explore their crucial role and how they can shape athletes through trying times. Our discussion takes us through the importance of accessible education on concussions and how events like The Sport Related Concussion Experience are instrumental in providing that knowledge.
Learn more about HeadsUpCAN & Research here!
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The Sport Related Concussion Experience tickets!
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Bella
Host
00:03
Hi everyone. I'm your host, bella Page, and after suffering from post concussion syndrome for years, it was time to do something about it. So welcome to the post concussion podcast, where we dig deep into life when it doesn't go back to normal. Be sure to share the podcast and join our support network, concussion Connect. Let's make this invisible injury become visible. The post concussion podcast is strictly an information podcast about concussions and post concussion syndrome. It does not provide nor substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or another qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. The opinions expressed in this podcast are simply intended to spark discussion about concussions and post concussion syndrome. Welcome to the show, seth and Ryan.
Ryan
Guest
01:11
We're happy to be here.
Bella
Host
01:12
So, to start, do you want to tell us a little bit about your concussion experiences?
Seth
Guest
01:21
Yeah, I guess I'll start and then I'll pass it to Ryan For me, I grew up playing all kinds of sports hockey, I was a goalie. Baseball, really, was like the kind of son that my dad was like you're going into all these sports, but football was the one that I wanted to and I guess I gravitated to the most and was the most compelled to play, and obviously it was the one that was the most violent at the same time. But I played that for seven years. I fell in love with it, played it all throughout high school and it wasn't until my final year in grade 12 where I sustained my first diagnosed concussion. There was definitely a lot of subconcussive hits throughout those years. Obviously it's the same time when I'm growing up and maturing, so all of that kind of played into a factor, I guess.
02:05
But it was a week before the season started. I knew going into grade 12 was my last season too, and when I got that concussion it like immediately was just ringing. I just didn't really know where I was. Coach looked at me and said, yeah, you need to get this checked out, and was diagnosed with a mild concussion, which, as we now know, no longer no such thing as a mild concussion. I was told by the doctor you'll be back at it in no time, but it ended up taking over a month to recover.
02:35
And it's interesting I was reflecting on this recently because a picture came up. It was 10 years ago when I got this injury and grade 12 is like the year where one chapter closes and another one opens. Right, you're finishing high school, you're going into university, but for me, all I could think about was the chapter that was closing and it was really challenging because I put everything into those four years of football to play for this final year to be my best year. I worked so hard to get to that point and then a week before, it felt like everything was taken away from me.
03:08
But yeah, what came after that was not so much physical symptoms. Mine presented more emotionally and I dealt with a lot of anxiety and depression. I never had any of that growing up, so it was hard to correlate the brain injury I got with the mental health complications I was starting to experience. And although I was back in school, I wasn't on the field and my friends and teammates didn't understand that. So there was a lot of challenges that really went in with that and it was really hard to navigate. I was very, very grateful that my parents kind of made sure that I prioritized my brain health, but it was about like two months of just the unknown of what I was going through. And it really wasn't until I met Ryan where I fully understood the magnitude of my experience and I think that's a pretty good way to segue to Ryan sharing his story.
Ryan
Guest
03:58
Yeah, so, similar to Seth, I experienced some concussions in high school and for me I've had eight concussions. Now I'm going to try and condense the story so it's not explaining each one, because I don't think that's necessary, but I was introduced to the injury at a very young age. I sustained my first concussion at the age of seven, I believe, in a biking accident, and that was a rude awakening into what that can be like from such a young age for me and also for my family. And moving forward, eight years I'm in high school and three years back to back I'm playing hockey on the high school team, playing in a rep league as well, and I sustained a concussion in three consecutive seasons and for me, hockey was my life and I was being taken away from it, similar to what Seth was saying, and the culture I was in as well was a bit more of a small town area and a rough and tough mentality that came with it, and for me it was robbed robbed, not being able to play through an injury that a lot of people thought was play through a ball.
05:10
It was very isolating for me and it wasn't something that was necessarily understood by a lot of people, and I often found myself when I was trying to come back to sport and not seeing the progress that I wanted, and I also was wondering about myself why can I play through this? I see teammates. They get hit all the time. They I've seen people come on to the bench and hockey and they definitely had a concussion, but they still played. Why was I different? And I kept finding myself asking.
05:39
Questions like that take months, sometimes to recover as well, and it ultimately now I don't play hockey at all unfortunately, and it was a big part of my life for a while and I will extend a little bit beyond high school because I sustained my fifth concussion in between first and second year university and at this time seth and I were connected we're about to move in together at university and essentially I was playing hockey pretty much the last competitive hockey that I played and I got hit out of nowhere and it was a non contact league as well and that can cushion for me was absolutely brutal because it was in the summer. I was managing a retail store, a very small one. It was pretty much just me working. My boss basically forced me to work while I had my concussion the whole time, and that was very difficult to navigate because I knew I was not not in the right mind to be able to do that, and then also, on top of it, I was told by doctors that I shouldn't be playing contact sports or hockey anymore, like at all, like it was a hard cut off at that point.
06:47
So there was a lot going on in my life in this. Recovery took a while and that's what led to seth and I having these conversations as we return to school, where I was explaining to him what I went through that summer and he was like oh man, like I really went through a lot with my concussion that I didn't really realize and it was definitely related to some mental health things that I never really connected to it. So after we shared that experience, it's what's led us to create heads up can ultimately, and Our personal stories in large part are a reason why we do the work that we do today.
Bella
Host
07:22
I always like hearing everyone's stories because I think it's such a big part, especially in this kind of work. It kind of starts from somewhere. So very often that you meet someone in this world that's like, oh, I just got interested in school. It's like, no, they have a connection, whether it's a family member themselves, a friend, somehow they've been affected by brain injuries and, like Seth had said about the you know nothing mild about a concussion. I kind of like that because I actually have a shirt that we sell. It says that because I believe in it so much.
07:52
You kind of talked about the isolating factor and all that and that why me factor was something that was really big for me and I mean like huge. I was like show jumping, traveling, and I was just it was such a blow when I had friends that fell off. They had had worse incidents, they had had ambulances fly into a horse show ring and put them on a board and take them out, but I was the one suffering. Not that I hadn't been on a few ambulances, but Is really tough to see that when you're not getting better, when you don't understand why you're not getting better. All these factors and the mental health part isn't talked about enough. A lot of people don't know that it's going to be a part of this. You get handed that. She did the. If you go and I don't even mention that half the time that you could feel like a completely different person. And if you've never dealt with anxiety or never dealt with depression, then you have no idea what you're dealing with. So it can definitely be life changing in a lot of ways. I don't know what is better.
08:57
Ryan, you mentioned that you got a complete cut off from sports. I had too many opinions from doctors and I think it's because I was seeing so many and some were you need to stop somewhere, keep going somewhere. Maybe somewhere it's okay, but if, like, if things bad happen. So it's really hard for me to make a decision for myself and I think if my parents could pick, they would bubble wrap my entire body and never let me leave the house. But that's not who I am. But, like you said, people really don't get it, which is why I love doing this work. I have tons of people. Even to this day, I go to a motocross track and it'll be covered in mud and slippery and I won't get on and I go, just go have fun. I have too many head injuries for that like I have to do this, like I do this, it's risky, I shouldn't be doing it, let's be real. But I still have to be a little safer than everyone else. But people just don't get it. They just look you like, oh why.
Seth
Guest
09:51
So it is very tough from that I just I found that like super fascinating because I think the decision making process that one goes through after, whether it's a brain injury or even just like a big life traumatic event, is something that very rarely we talk about, and even very rarely that I feel like I talk about, but it's something that is so present Because, you know, for me it's been more like alright, I gotta start adopting, like mindfulness and meditation and yoga and things like that.
10:22
That kind of ground me and these are not things that I was thinking about, you know, before that growing up, you know, especially in high school, like I never really thought about longevity and my own like well being.
10:36
But then you kind of go through something like this and, having met Ryan and again has he had alluded to we had this very Deep conversation about our experiences and although we had the same concussion, we all of us have experience a concussion. All of our experiences are so different. Right, and I think that was a really big Moment and like a flip of a switch for me where it was just like why aren't we talking about everything related to this? Why is concussions only focus in the severe, like cte concept and sports, and not the, you know young athletes that are now dealing with mental health and things like that and the decision making process. I think that kind of Philosophy goes across so many different types of boards from how you approach your concussion, but even just years after in the decisions you make, is all just like very impactful and people don't realize that.
Bella
Host
11:28
Yeah, it is my health effects every single decision I make, even if it's not the forefront of my decision. It has to be there because I still have tons of health issues after my concussion so they deal with to this day. So I have to think that way. But it's not always something people think of. They don't realize how many like other decision factors there are in the way before I say yes to something. But you two have created a fabulous nonprofit heads of can, and so do you want to talk a little bit about what heads of can is? And then the event that you have coming soon.
Ryan
Guest
12:04
Absolutely so. Yeah, heads of can, it is something that set the night have been building for probably six years now, you can say, and it really happened again, that catalyst moment was that conversation that set the night had. A year after we had that conversation, we started a social purpose business where we donated 15% of all of our t-shirt sales to concussion research, and that's how we really got our start in this area, and I was in our fourth year of university and since then in 2020 so that was 2017, in 2020, right before the pandemic we actually started our nonprofit in January, right before covid, and essentially, we've been building it ever since, and For us, the biggest reason why we wanted to do this change is because we really wanted to double down on our mission, which is to create innovative partnerships for the purpose of concussion education, awareness and research, and so we really identified those three domains is something that we really cared about exploring, and the reason why we do it is for the people who are experiencing what we had experience back when we were in high school and when this conversation initially started. This whole thing for us and that's the one thing that we Stay consistent with and the one thing that keeps us going with the work that we do, and it's ultimately led to this event, and seth and I have always talked about having an in person event for concussions and providing people with the latest information on concussions, and for this, especially because our background is in sport, I think we wanted to do it in a sport context. So there was an incredible opportunity for us to partner with A contact at Maple Leaf Sports and entertainment, and so we're putting on an event at BMO field in Toronto, ontario, to be able to provide sports day colders and athlete care providers with the latest information on concussions and sport.
14:06
And the cool thing about this event is that I don't believe there's ever been a concussion education event at a professional sports stadium in Toronto. I'm not certain about that, but from what we've heard, that is a fact. And on top of that, we're also not trying to talk so much about how sport is bad. We're not trying to play the downer role. We're trying to actually empower people To make better decisions, to have more information, to actually get the help that is needed in sport, and I think that's what makes this unique. And we're trying to again inform people as much as possible with the latest information on this topic, and we're excited about it, to say the very least.
Bella
Host
14:55
I think that's great. I really love the event that's coming. I will actually be at the event, which is super exciting, and I'm really looking forward to that and I'm hoping and get as many podcast listeners there as well, and you mentioned that things that keep you going and I think that's a huge part of this that I just wanted to throw out there, because it's a lot of work and I can commend both of you for that Putting an event together. I've watched my mom do it for years, from small fundraising events to giant events and you know it is a ton of work. Doesn't matter the size of it. It's a lot of planning, it's a lot of figuring out what works best and all that. So I'm really looking forward to that.
15:33
You mentioned that sport is not bad. I agree. I very strongly am pro sport, and I'm pro sport because I think there's a lot of benefits to playing sports. I think it isn't all bad. But this is where the education piece is needed, because if I had known what I know now, I probably wouldn't have had to stop. I probably wouldn't have had to stop riding. I definitely would have taken breaks when I needed it. There was lots of times where I didn't tell anybody what was going on. I didn't tell my coaches, I didn't tell my parents because I didn't live with them and so it's pretty easy to hide what I was going through, and because all this is invisible. So that is a huge factor, I think, in you know, educating athletes and parents of athletes, family members of athletes, coaches, because if everyone has a better education on it, then hopefully we can prevent less people from retiring.
16:25
We are going to talk more about this event, the speakers, all the topics on it and how you can register for it, but before that we're going to take a quick break. Did you want to create awareness about concussions? You can check out our entire clothing line through the link in the episode description or go to our website, postconcussioninkcom and click awareness merch from t-shirts, sweaters, tank tops and multiple designs, including the podcast. Nothing mild about a concussion and more. Make sure to pause this episode right now and order yours before you forget, just like I would Welcome back to the Post Concussion Podcast with myself, phillip Hage and today's guests Seth Mendelson and Ryan Sutton. So we've been talking about an event that's coming up which heads up can both Seth and Ryan are putting on, and so I want to talk about the sections. Can you walk us through the event? I'd love to hear kind of why you picked the topics that you did and kind of walk us through it so people can know what to expect.
Seth
Guest
17:29
Yeah, I can give an outline of kind of what that day is going to look like. So, as Ryan had mentioned earlier, we're doing this at BMO Field and it's going to take place on Saturday, september 23rd. Registration starts at 1.30 and essentially it's like within 30 minutes you have time to just come in and at 2 o'clock both Ryan and myself will kind of introduce the event and then we have our first keynote speaker at 2.10, dr Patrick Quaid, who is a renowned optometrist and realized just how important vision and balance is within concussion recovery, but especially with athletes. We're talking about the eyes and how you have to track everything, and eyes are obviously connected to the brain. So a lot of people don't necessarily make that correlation and I think it will be a very insightful 30 minutes of just realizing oh, here's another way that I can go and try and get help for this concussion. And I think that's a big thing. That this whole event is like a big theme is showing the different modalities and the different approaches that people are taking to help athletes with dealing with this invisible injury Because, as the three of us all had mentioned, it was very challenging to go through.
18:43
So after Dr Patrick Quaid speaks, that will go right into our first panel, which focuses on concussion risk perceptions and prevention, and that features three industry experts. Stephanie Cowell is the knowledge translator at Parachute Canada. Dr Kaylee Panak is the assistant professor at University of Waterloo and has done a lot of research within youth athletes in sports and the risks behaviors associated with that. And then Michael Jorgensen is a PhD candidate at University of Toronto. He's also worked with Rugby Canada. After that we'll have a little break for networking and snacks and stuff like that, and then we'll go into the second half of the event, which we have the executive director of the Coaches Association of Ontario speaking. So Jeremy Cross will talk about the importance of education with coaches and how that is obviously super relevant, especially when we think about sports and these coaches become like the guardians of these young athletes.
19:41
And then that second panel, which we obviously have you a part of and you're going to talk about the lived experience and what it's like as an athlete to go through this, because this panel is called concussion recognition, early diagnosis and active recovery.
19:55
So having your perspective is going to be incredible because I think it's going to provide a lot of context and I'm sure you have a lot to talk about in each one of those areas as well, and you're going to be on the panel with Dr Michael Hutchinson, who is the director for the Centre for Sport-related Concussion Innovation, and then you also are going to have Kim Browsies, who is a certified athletic therapist and works at the Ontario Athletic Therapist Association, and Katie Mitchell, who is also a certified athletic therapist, physiotherapist, runs her own rehabilitation clinic called Thrive Neurosport. So it is a very encompassing event. We have a lot of amazing speakers, including yourself, that I think we're going to provide a lot of different perspectives on what the sport-related concussion experience is, and I think that was a big key focus for us in terms of a topic that we want to share with this.
Bella
Host
20:47
I like that you mentioned the coach's perspective, like coach education, coach's perspective, because it's something that I kind of wish I had because my parents could tell me to stop. But I think if my coach had told me, I would have respected a little bit more being a teenager being stubborn. I always say sports are an addiction and I was addicted to being a part of it, to competing Like I didn't think of anything else. So educating them would have made a really big difference. I know when I coached it made a big difference for me. I was able to tell students to stay off, like no, like that I drew the line, so their parents didn't have to, because sometimes that creates really bad relationships in the home and things like that. So having a coach do it can make a really big difference because there's that respect. There there's another level of trust, a different level of trust. You believe that your coach has an education in this factor. So it can make a really big difference. And coaches do need to be educated on this because I think a lot of them don't know. So that's where this type of event can really help An education on all fronts, not just athletes, but all the people around them because they need to look out for them, because athletes have a really hard time looking out for themselves because we can't.
22:00
You're obsessed, you're addicted. Especially as teenagers, you don't think of anything else. I always put into my mind, like if I told a kid what I got told at 14 years old you're going to the Olympics. Kid, let's go. These are the plans for the next 10 years of your life. You can't imagine not doing that, and that's why it took me so long to get out of that, and so I think having a team of people that had known about brain injuries probably would have saved me a lot of mental health issues as this all happened. Because you guys mentioned mental health and, yeah, I can say I've had a lot of mental health issues in the past. Everybody on the podcast who's listened to it knows quite a bit about it. But, yeah, I think this event's gonna be great. Do you wanna talk a little bit about some of the other little benefits things that are gonna go on at the event? I know there's some prizes and things like that.
Ryan
Guest
22:52
Absolutely. I just wanted to say a quick point about the coaches before we move on to that, if that's all right. So I have actually done a lot of research in the topic of coaches and looking into that and it's so important. A lot of the research says how important it is for coaches to be informed and also the culture that a coach can create in an environment can largely dictate how an athlete actually goes through their recovery experience. So, and also for you as a coach, in having that lived experience when I was doing my master's project, that was one of the things that a lot of my participants said was when they had a coach who actually had been through the injury before, their experience was a lot better and a little bit smoother, from the mental health side of things at least, because they felt like they had somebody who they could talk to. They felt like they had somebody who knew the right lines to draw and who was willing to work with them with empathy, and that's so important.
23:53
So, yeah, I'm really happy that you had that experience as a coach and that's why we are so excited to have coaches come to this event, why we wanted the Coaching Association of Ontario to have a speaker, and also we're excited to announce or share that all coaches who are certified by the Coaching Association of Ontario will actually gain three professional development points. They're actually called three NCCP PD points, but essentially they're professional development points and so by attending our event, all coaches who are registered will actually be able to get those professional development points. So we're really excited about that, for sure. We also have door prizes, which we're really excited about. Some notable door prizes that we'll be having is we'll be doing giveaway for Toronto Maple Leafs tickets, which we're really excited about, and on top of that there'll be signed Argos jerseys available for the door prize. And then there's a few other door prizes, which is really exciting.
Seth
Guest
24:58
Yeah, I would say, you know, just adding on to the coach aside too because, like, I think one of the biggest reasons why we wanted the coaching community is because coaches can bring the best out of us as athletes, but they can also have an imprint in our life and because they play a role, model, type of influence. And I think you know for me, when I suffered my concussion, like my coaches looked at me as it was a sign of weakness and I was never viewed the same way and that also played a big factor into why we wanted to have coaching representation there and the coaching community to have those professional development points, as Ryan mentioned. In a lot of ways it's just full circle moment for what I think we all went through and to actually have them want to come out and gain something from this event. And the fact that we're doing this at BMO field, I think makes it that much more of a unique experience. And on top of that, like everyone that comes to this event gets admission to a CFL game later that night. So it is in tandem with the Argos versus Hamilton and Tiger Cats game at seven o'clock Battle of Ontario, which will be really fun. So I think there's a lot of value beyond just the education.
26:13
Like Ryan and I really wanted to make this an experience, like, yes, it's called the sport related concussion experience, but this event in itself we want to be an experience. There's a lot of opportunities for networking, for coaches within the community or athletic therapists and, you know, medical providers, but also parents, and I think this event again like the theme that we kind of kept coming back to when we want to put this together. Obviously it's very exciting that it's at BMO field and we get to connect with industry experts and connect with people like you, like all of that. It's very exciting and almost like a altruistic benefit that comes from it, but more so it's we didn't have access to any of this when we were going through what we went through, and to be able to provide that directly to people who, by coming to this event, will get the latest information on concussions, which is constantly evolving. It's not like, all right, we now know what a concussion is. You're fine, like you can go with this information Like this is constantly evolving.
27:11
What we knew 10 years ago is now considered myths. Right, like, everything that we probably all went through were probably bad practices compared to what we know now, but the reality is people are still using them. People were all in Ontario and people still don't know about Rowan's Law, like, there are so many things, as you're in this community and this industry, where you realize the need for education, for accessible education is so prevalent and so important, but yet there aren't a lot of opportunities. And that's why this podcast is amazing, because it provides a resource for people and we're hoping our event is that same type of resource for them.
Bella
Host
27:48
Yeah, I really like that factor and it is true that coaches can have different influences on you. Actually, I think what I think back is probably why I was able to retire the last coach that I worked with. She had had a brain injury a severe, like a very bad TBI and she was back to it competing and everything. But she got it. When I said I had a day I couldn't ride, it wasn't like, oh, you need to. It was like, oh, yeah, okay, like you can just come hang out if you want. Like you don't even need to get on, we'll ride. Like we'll ride all the horses, you know. That support, I think, almost allowed me to feel okay about retiring. But it definitely is a huge decision to make as an athlete and it's a huge decision to make at any level of being an athlete. But one thing for me is I spent more time awake with my coaches, trainers and all that than I did with anybody else. Like that's who. I spent all my time with them. I didn't spend time with anybody else. So it definitely can be life-changing, for sure, and that's why I think this is so important, because it changes your life.
28:50
Concussions can change your life, whether you slipped and fell, or you're an athlete or you are just. You know, have nothing to do with sports, but you still get hurt. But having an education and understanding what's happening to you or what to do about it can really change your life. Finding access to that education that's useful is also really helpful because when you do googling, it's really hard to find the things that you need, which is why these events are so great. So we have talked about a lot. The sport-related concussion experience is just in a few weeks. There will be links to it and the show notes and everything, so everyone can find it. We have a discount code available as well. Everybody can send me messages about it if they have any questions, because I will be there. If you just want to come to meet me, I'm totally okay with that too. Is there anything else you, too, would like to add before we end today's episode?
Seth
Guest
29:39
More, so would like to kind of ask you a question. Obviously, we've heard throughout this conversation, you know, about your own experience. But what made you want to be a part of this event? Because we're thrilled to have you, but we'd love to get here, like why. I guess you want to come, you know, and share your experience with everyone in our community as well.
Bella
Host
29:59
Yeah, for sure. I think for me, the biggest thing is I find I love all the medical professionals. I wanted to be one for a while, but I think that's because my entire journey, 90% of the medical professionals miss the big picture because they hadn't been through it in the same way. They have been through it. Maybe they've had a concussion, they had a few weeks off, but it changed my life. To this day, I have four chronic illnesses because of my concussions, and so they re-routed my entire life and still do so. I think, being able to speak on it as a retired athlete and athlete, I think it's really important to give back, and my goal with all of this has always been to prevent people from making the same mistakes I did, because I made a lot of them, and if I can prevent other people from making mistakes, then you know I did what I was supposed to do. From all of that I learned, because all the mistakes I made definitely made this a lot longer of an experience than it needed to be. So, yeah, that's definitely why.
Seth
Guest
31:03
Yeah, no, that's amazing. I think that perspective and that insight is so important and why we really want I know a lot of ways be the voice of lived experience, which is no pressure and saying that but it's because I think so many of us go through the mistakes and the trials and tribulations and had we been better prepared or more educated maybe I mean we're obviously not saying something that it would prevent concussions entirely but the way we go about it and our recovery definitely wouldn't have been as harmful as it may feel. And I think that's really a big thing for this event as well that we want to touch upon, because I know Ryan and I, it's definitely something we've been very passionate about for the past six years and still are and just happy to kind of bring the community together for this.
Bella
Host
31:50
I want to thank you so much, both of you, for joining us today, and I can't wait for the event.
Seth
Guest
31:56
Can't wait to have you.
Ryan
Guest
31:56
Yeah, can't wait and thanks for having us. We really appreciate being on here and, yeah, just really commend you for the work that you do. It's really important and for people who, like ourselves, who have been through the injury, we really appreciate it.
Bella
Host
32:12
Need more than just this podcast. Be sure to check out our website postconcussioninccom to see how we can help you in your post concussion life, from a support network to one-on-one coaching. I believe life can get better because I've lived through it. Make sure you take it one day at a time.
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This cookbook was something I had been looking for! It pairs nutritional information specific to concussion recovery with tips for symptoms, and the recipes are delicious!! My husband and teenager loved it too! Very grateful to have this resource! - Halli
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