The Science Behind Your Mental Illness with Hilary Morris
Show Notes:
For many traumatic brain injury survivors, the last person they turn to for help is a therapist. Today we talk to Hilary Morris, a licensed professional counselor who specializes in providing psychotherapy to these very people, to help them find relief from anxiety, stress, and post-traumatic stress disorder. We hear why Hilary chose to specialize in treating this group, and what some of the common psychological symptoms of concussion are. Find out why a concussion is like a snow globe, and how a therapist helped Bella to ground herself after her injury. Hilary breaks down the neurophysiology underlying concussion, and how the anatomy of the brain affects the symptoms exhibited by each patient. We dive into how your emotions might change following a concussive injury, and the tools that a therapist will provide you with to cope.
Tune in to find out how to accept the loss of the person you once were, how to handle the accompanying grief, and so much more in this therapeutic episode!
Key Points From This Episode:
• An introduction to Hilary Morris licensed professional counselor specializing in providing psychotherapy to people who have experienced traumatic brain injuries.
• Why Hilary got involved with concussion patients.
• How concussion is like shaking up the snow globe that is your life, and why you should see a therapist to ground yourself.
• What the regular manifestations of psychological symptoms that come with concussion are.
• Bella’s experience of seeing a therapist to help her post-concussion syndrome.
• Why the invisibility of a concussion injury is such a problem.
• The intersection between neurophysiology and concussion, and how the anatomy of the brain affects the symptoms of concussion.
• The emotional response to a concussion: understanding the mechanism behind it.
• Grieving for the loss of your previous self: coming to terms with the new, post-concussion you.
• Why Bella felt anger at herself, and how she eventually learned to handle it.
• How Hilary uses somatic work to address the emotional trauma of a concussion.
Connect with Hilary:
Check out Hilary's website: https://hilarymorrislpc.com/index.html
Blog post "The Injured Prefrontal Cortex" https://hilarymorrislpc.com/blog/the-injured-pre-frontal-cortex
Contact: https://hilarymorrislpc.com/contact.html
Follow Hilary on Instagram: @hilarymorrislpc
Follow Post Concussion Inc on Social Media to stay up to date on the podcast
Transcript - Click to Read
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:04.2] BP: Hi, I’m your host Bella Paige and welcome to The Post Concussion Podcast, all about life after experiencing a concussion. Help us make the invisible injury become visible.
The Post Concussion Podcast is strictly an information podcast about concussions and post-concussion syndrome. It does not provide nor substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or another qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. The opinions expressed in this podcast are simply intended to spark discussion about concussion and post-concussion syndrome.
Welcome to today’s episode of The Post Concussion Podcast with myself, Bella Paige and today’s guest, Hilary Morris. Hilary is a state licensed professional councilor and the owner of a private therapy practice in Denver, Colorado. Her team of therapists provide psychotherapy to clients who have developed anxiety, depression or PTSD following a concussion or a mild traumatic brain injury. They help clients navigate the frightening and confusing days, weeks and months after an accident.
They work with patients to provide relief from their emotional distress, they also help clients develop acceptance and compassion towards the symptoms of their brain injury. Hilary and her team work with clients to adjust their daily life and move forward.
They also use somatic therapies to increase tolerance to unwanted negative emotions, sometimes associated with brain injury. Hilary and her team work with a myriad of clients who have sustained a concussion including athletes, crime victims, military and special operations, injured workers, car accident victims, corporate executives, young professionals and first responders.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:02:09.1] BP: Welcome to the show Hilary.
[0:02:11.2] HM: Thank you so much, I’m so honored to be here.
[0:02:13.2] BP: Well, I want to start with you telling everyone a little bit about your interest in concussion recovery and therapy as well.
[0:02:21.1] HM: Yes, so I have worked with concussion patients for gosh, probably about eight years and before I was in private practice, I was working at another practice and who specialized in concussion patients and so I sort of developed a specialty kind of by accident because I was just working with a specific subtype of population and so I started to recognize commonalities and trends and specific symptom presentations, challenges, struggles with this unique population.
Then, about three years ago, I went into private practice and I own a private psychotherapy practice and our main specialty is working with concussion or mild traumatic brain injury patients specifically, who are struggling with the emotionally distressing symptoms following a concussion.
We really help patients in so many ways to adjust to their new life, their new symptom presentation, following the concussion and I just developed and the therapists in my practice, we just developed such a passion and an interest for really, how to help move these patients forward with their concussive injuries.
[0:03:47.1] BP: Yeah, I think it’s so great because it helps with the specialty like in the focus on it because I’ve been to therapy and it’s less of a learning curve for your therapist if they already know a lot about it, right? I’ve been in therapy with therapists who don’t have experience with things like chronic pain or the infrequent part of having a brain injury like how everyday is different as we talk about things in planning things for life, which can be hard because maybe you can’t handle it like you think you can or I’ve tried, “Oh I’ll, go get this full-time job” and then two weeks in or a month in, I’m like, “Wow, I can’t actually do this.”
When you haven’t dealt with that or been around it, it’s hard to explain to someone how infrequent and how much of a roller coaster it really can be. I wanted to ask you why survivors should go to therapy. I talk about it a lot because it really helped me but do you have any other views on that?
[0:04:46.1] HM: Yes, absolutely. I think survivors go to therapy as a way to first of all, understand that what they’re going through is normal and have resources to navigate the emotional presentation following their concussion.
Because often times, like you said, a concussion happens and it’s such an immense event and it can change your life. We use this metaphor that it’s almost like a snow globe, you had your life and it was nice and seemingly perfect and then you have this concussive event and it’s like this snow globe just shakes and it turns things upside down and things are twirling and swirling around and it can be hard to find ground.
I find that having someone to talk to, having a safe space to be seen, heard and just share their unique experience can really help them to find resources for how to manage some of these emotions.
Typically, there are a pretty regular manifestation of psychological symptoms that come with concussion that I am very versed in and so it also helps clients to know, “Okay, this is actually normal and there are ways that I can overcome this, I’m not crazy.”
[0:06:05.2] BP: I know that one.
[0:06:08.2] HM: “I’m not broken, I’m just recovering from physical and sometimes emotional trauma” and that really helps to know that they’re not in it alone. They don’t have to figure out how to deal with it on their own and we really do provide resources to help manage some of the anxiety, depression, panic, ruminations, worries, lack of motivation, those are all pretty typical symptoms that occur with concussion and until patients come to us or until someone goes to seek out psychotherapy, they’re really trying to navigate it all on their own on top of all the other symptoms of the brain injury too.
We see clients just completely open up. Once they start therapy, they soften, they find more hope, they find more peace, they just feel more validated, knowing that, “Oh, I’m not crazy, I’m not alone. This has actually, this has a reason, this is actually normal and I can move through it” so it’s just wonderful to be a part of those clients and their process.
[0:07:18.1] BP: Yeah, I think it’s so important and I really like your snow globe, I’ve never thought about it that way but it’s like the snow globe can’t get put down either.
[0:07:27.1] HM: Right? Can’t put it down, and gosh, we worked with so many patients and their lives do get thrown upside-down and everything they learn to do, their sense of normalcy just got thrown out the window and so it’s all about adjusting to a new normal and what that looks like and I think patients just really learn to just how to ground themselves during this snow globe of chaos.
There’s so much that goes with that, with the grief and the loss of what was and integrating what is, but yes, it can be very disruptive to overall functioning.
[0:08:09.0] BP: Yeah, I like your, “You’re not crazy” thing, that was something…
[0:08:13.0] HM: I’m not crazy.
[0:08:14.0] BP: …That I actually went through a few times. One time specifically because I got asked if I was making the headaches up because I had a headache every day, I think for probably over two years at that point and then I started overthinking and getting more headaches because I started thinking that I was, “Am I? Do I not have a headache right now?” Then my headache would start hurting even more and is interesting how you can start to feel crazy because you were like, “Well, I do have a headache every day” who has a headache every day, especially when I was a young teenager, I was like, “This doesn’t make any sense, what is going on?”
It was really hard to deal with and going and talking to someone was like the last piece of my puzzle as I often explain it because I had done pretty much every other therapy in the book for all of my physical symptoms and all my physical symptoms had been significantly reduced, I was doing really well but my mental health just kind of got left in the dust because I just didn’t really talk about it.
I didn’t tell anyone that I wasn’t doing well, I’m really bad at being one of those people that just puts on a happy face and carries on through life despite the fact that you’re really close to having a breakdown if someone asks, that kind of thing.
With the stress and life changes that you deal with after a concussion, it is so important to talk to someone. Talk to someone who can help you not just your friends or your family, not something I like to talk about a lot too because talking to a professional is a lot different. They have tools and all these things that can help you for your every day life that your friends aren’t going to give you.
[0:09:48.0] HM: Yes, I completely agree. I think too, I really resonate with the term, “Invisible injury” as a lot of my patients do and maybe you do as well, it’s so — one of the struggles comes with concussion and brain injury from the fact that it happens within the brain and really, unless you bring in brain imaging, you can’t see it in the same way as other injuries so if you’ve broke your arm or broke your leg, others would be able to see your injury through a cast or a sling but with a brain injury, it’s not as apparent.
You look okay, you might look great but inside, you’re struggling and so I think I applaud you and just anyone else for reaching out for help to a specialist because it really does help create resilience and teach resources for how to overcome these things and I completely agree about seeking out a specialist versus friends and family and I found that in the clinical world, concussion practitioners who understand concussions are, they’re few and far between so we have kind of a strong network here in Denver of concussion or brain injury trained practitioners and we kind of all sort of know each other but I completely agree.
It’s so helpful to know of someone that knows you’re not making up your headaches, they’re actually a very normal part of the process and also having a network of practitioners who you can refer to in the fields of neurology or physical therapy as well, I completely agree.
[0:11:25.0] BP: Yeah, it makes a huge difference and it’s just so important because people forget about their mental health because they get so focused and all the physical aspects and it’s really important that people realize that it’s just as important and something else I wanted to talk about was brain chemicals changing in your brain, that’s another thing survivors deal with.
It’s not just that your life is changing, sometimes it’s a lot more physical than that than we can see. We’re going to talk a little bit about anatomy on the brain and Hilary’s going to explain that a lot better than I can because it’s definitely not my realm but you can kind of see why sometimes mental health does go all over the place after an injury.
[0:12:08.1] HM: Yes, this is one of my favorite topics to talk about. The intersection between neurophysiology and concussion because a concussion impacts the brain on a neuro cellular level and so when we’re explaining the concussive process to our patients, we actually start with this brain model and I’m holding up a model of a cortex of a brain.
We find that sharing this visual with our clients really helps them to understand what occurred to their brain during this concussive event or this concussive injury and often times, they haven’t been told this before, no one has, maybe a neurologist will explain it to them but something really clicks after we share this with them.
What we tell our clients is that we kind of go through the different lobes of the brain. Your brain is responsible for all sorts of functions, we have the frontal lobe, which is responsible for executive function information, processing, planning, intellectual reasoning. We have the temporal lobes, which are responsible for memory, language processing. We have the parietal lobes up here which are responsible for problem solving and spatial awareness.
Then we have the occipital lobe in the back, which is our visual processing and so we have the cortex. Then, if we open up, I am opening up the brain here and we’re getting into some of the sub-cortical regions, which is called the limbic center of the brain and the limbic center of the brain is sort of the emotional powerhouse of the brain.
We have the surface or the cortical surface, which is kind of more executive functioning and then you have your emotional centers of the brain which is deep down here in the limbic system and so what happens with a concussive injury is the brain shifts back and forth in the skull.
There’s a clinical term for this, it’s a coup-contrecoup when it’s a back and forth, which impacts the interior frontal lobe and then the occipital lobe and the front parts of the temporal lobe or it kind of goes side to side with a lot more of a lateral impact.
Based on the mechanism of the concussion, the cells become injured because the brains kind of sloshes around in the skull and it makes contact with the sharp bones in the skull and so that creates shearing, axonal shearing which is basically an injury process and the functionality of the brain goes down in that specific area.
It’s almost like your neurotransmitters and your energy and the cells here, they’re asleep at the wheel. Maybe normally, they could perform at a hundred percent but then after a concussion, they perform at maybe a 50% and what that — how that impacts the limbic system is that we have your frontal lobe here and the cortex communicates with the limbic system constantly.
They’re always in communication. It is how we can really manage our emotions. We have an emotional impulse from our external environment, so a stimulus happens. Say, for example, you get cut off in traffic, you might get that jolt and say, “Oh my gosh, I’m so anxious” but then the frontal lobe says, “They might be having a bad day. It’s okay, let’s just down-regulate.” They work together to help regulate emotions.
Now, with concussions, since your frontal lobe of your brain has been injured and is kind of asleep at the wheel, the communication with the limbic center, the emotional center goes down which means, you are more emotionally reactive. That inhibitory blanket that the frontal lobe provides kind of gets wiped away.
The result is more emotional reactivity, more emotional sensitivity because you don’t have as strong as of neuro cellular resources to regulate. That’s often why with concussion, before your concussion, you may have had some struggles with anxiety or depression but you learned how to cope. You learned with your frontal lobe, how to cope.
Sometimes, someone with the preexisting anxiety or depression that was managed, they’ll have a concussion and all of a sudden, these anxiety symptoms will come back and the reason has to do with that frontal lobe being disinhibited and having this emotional reactivity come up.
It’s almost like you have this fire, this wildfire deep in the brain, you have your fight or flight, you have your anxiety, your panic, your irritability, your depression and you don’t have anything to help put it out so it just makes it more complex. And I love to share this with clients because it actually takes away a lot of the guilt and shame from their emotional symptoms because almost everyone that comes in gets embarrassed about their symptoms.
They say, “I can’t believe I’m crying in this office right now. I don’t like this. I should keep it together” and so this almost, explaining this model to them almost gives them permission that it’s okay. There’s a biochemical reason for some of what you’re going through and that’s why I think psychotherapy is so important because you are more emotionally vigilant and emotionally reactive and so we teach tools to help manage that and to help bring that fire down so that you’re no longer just ruminating or playing your trauma over and over or struggling with panic.
I mean, it really helps people to recognize, “Oh, okay.” In some cases too, in the moment of their emotional outburst, they will use this model and they’ll say, “Okay, this isn’t me, this is my brain injury and I’m okay” and so they’ll do maybe some counting or some close eyes count to 10, take a deep breath, “This is my brain injury, this is normal. I’m healing” and it just takes away the shame.
Then once the shame is out of the picture, that really opens up the space for healing too because then it becomes less about, “I’m broken, I’m terrible. I am just mad at myself for not being able to do this” into “What do I need to do to move forward? I am doing my best, I’m healing my brain on a neurophysiological level” and then that’s actually when a lot of the healing happens.
[0:18:56.4] BP: I think it’s so fascinating and I think it’s so important and essential to understand because like you said, a lot of the time you start blaming yourself. “Why am I so angry or depressed?” and you start to beat yourself up about it to the point where you actually can make it worse and not understanding that there is also science to it.
[0:19:19.1] HM: There actually is.
[0:19:21.1] BP: Yeah, it’s not just a feeling. A lot of the time, people don’t understand that. There’s a lot more than just emotions to the word emotion and when the ability like you said putting that fire out, that reasoning that you usually would have isn’t there, it can be really hard not to get frustrated or not to cry. Like even myself still, the crying is a thing still. Sometimes I will be talking to someone and I didn’t notice that it was a thing actually until one day I was talking with someone and they looked at me and they’re like, “You’re crying, are you okay?”
I go, “Yeah, I am actually. I’m fine.” I wasn’t upset or getting rude, just having a conversation and there’s tears like streaming down my face and I was like, “Oh right” I was like, “This is something that happens.” I forget that it doesn’t usually happen when I am just talking but sometimes my emotions, there is like a lack of control there that took me a while to kind of get to the point where I can breathe and take control of them by myself but it took a lot of time.
It wasn’t something that happened overnight by any means but I just want to thank you so much for sharing that model and all of that information but with that, we’re going to take a short break.
[0:20:32.1] HM: Okay.
[BREAK]
[0:20:38.0] BP: I just wanted to say thank you. The podcast is just over six months old and I couldn’t be happier with the response. If you truly love the podcast, please consider leaving a tip in our support the podcast tip jar down at the bottom of our episode description. All tips are greatly appreciated and help cover cost of the show.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[0:21:03.0] BP: Welcome back to The Post Concussion Podcast with myself, Bella Paige and today’s guest, Hilary Morris. We’re going to talk a little bit about loss and grief just because it’s something that a lot of us deal with after a concussion and a lot of it is loss of self. It was something I dealt with, loss of all of my hobbies and part of me really and it’s something we go through but not something we talk about a lot, so I am going to let Hilary talk about that more.
[0:21:30.0] HM: Yes and this, we always see this in our patients and that’s something that we help walk them through and there seems to be when patients come to us, this anger and rejection of what happened and rejection of the concussion and it usually takes some — a few sessions to get to this point but a common theme we see is, “I wish that I could go back to my past self.”
When you have that thought of, “I wish that I could go back to my past self” what that actually does inside is it rejects what is and so a lot of times, what we tell patients or what we do with patients is we make this distinction between what was and the self before injury and what is because right now, you’re not previous self and this devastating injury happened that in most of the time was out of your control and then your world is flipped upside down.
A lot of patients meet that with anger and rejection, which is understandable because they lost a lot but when we help them explore some of these, the roots to that, we explain the grief process to them because this is a loss and most of us think about grief when we think about a death of a person or a loved one and grief can also occur when there’s a loss of that old self because in a way it was a death.
We really explain to these clients that yes, there was a loss and yes, that was devastating and how and in what ways can you honor and open up to that grief because a lot of times, additional psychological symptoms will happen when we just close the door to the emotional process of grief and we just sort of brush everything under the rug but there is a loss that’s present here and so we really encourage clients to think through what that grief might look like for them because grief is a language.
It’s its own language, it’s unique to the individual, it’s expressed in its own unique way and we just walk patients through the grief of their previous self or their past self or their old self or however they describe it so that they can gently and gracefully let that go and open up and accept and integrate what is and that’s this push-pull that we see in our sessions as, “I want to go back. I want to go back. I wish I was my past self. I wish I could just multitask better or focus or not trip over my words.”
Sometimes, patients can get some of those symptoms or those abilities back but sometimes they don’t and so what we really work on is accepting the loss and helping them open up to what that looks like and there’s resistance to that and I think that’s okay. It’s normal, there’s none of us really want to face a difficult loss but the more they are open to that process and the more they just start to open up and sort of surrender to that life is done, this life, this new life is here and how do I make peace with what is?
For some people, it’s an easier process than others but we typically see the most improvement, the most peace with the injury, the most sense of hope when someone can accept the gravity and the immensity of the devastating injury and accept that that’s not the reality anymore. The reality is, “I am a TBI survivor and this is what my life looks like” and meeting that not with the same shame and rejection but meeting it with love and compassion and kindness.
Saying, “Okay, I might trip over my words sometimes. I might have anger outbursts sometimes but this is me and I can deal with that and love that” and that shifts just overall I think energy and even it shifts things in the central nervous system because then the level of rejection of the brain injury diminishes and then they learn to welcome it and embrace it as a part of who they are and integrate it into their life.
[0:26:18.0] BP: For sure. Well, I like that you touched on anger because that’s something I’ve talked about on the podcast a few times because it’s something that I dealt with. I was really angry at everything. I was angry at myself, I was angry at the medical world because 10 years ago it was a lot different than it is not and I was angry just pretty much at everything and I remember it took me a while.
Now, I have a different perspective but something I always remind myself of was I made those choices at the time because they felt like the right one. It’s been years so I can think about it differently but then, it seemed like the right choice because that’s the information that I had at hand. I was show jumping and competitive and I was an athlete and I didn’t want to tell anyone about my headaches because I didn’t want to stop.
What I did was I kept pushing myself to the point where I kind of broke and as I like to call it on the podcast, I hit my wall and it really affected me a lot because I didn’t tell anyone what was going on but it took me time to accept that but at that time, I was 15 years old dealing with daily headaches and I was stubborn and really ambitious and addicted to the sport and I didn’t think the way I think now.
You have to forgive yourself a lot for a lot of that and you do have a different life a lot of the time after a concussion but it doesn’t mean it has to be a bad life just because it’s different. It doesn’t mean you can’t be happy, it doesn’t mean you can enjoy things just as much. Sometimes you just have to be adaptive like I bring earplugs with me everywhere I go. It’s very rare that I’ll spend time in the sun without a hat.
There is lots of things that people can do to help but that doesn’t mean that just because you’ve accepted this that you’re not going to get tired sometimes like I am in a very good spot mentally for a lot of these things but just the other day, a bunch of things came up and my health was what affected everything. Everything that I was planning on doing I couldn’t do because of my headaches and that it would cause headaches and things and you kind of get tired.
I always call it like I would say to my mom, “I’m so tired of my brain injury controlling my life” because it starts to control your life a little bit and you have to learn to forgive yourself a little bit and it is okay if those moments happen but you have to be able to get up the next day and be like, “Okay, new day” and we can carry on after that.
[0:28:46.1] HM: Yes, thank you for sharing that and it sounds like you learned to work with your brain injury and open up to the good days and open up to the bad days as well.
[0:28:59.0] BP: Yeah, the bad days are something that I used to let takeover the week kind of thing because the weekends get busy a lot of the time, right? You’re out, we’re doing more things and then Mondays I would crash because I do too much on the weekends and then my Monday crash would be so bad and then it would last the entire week because I would make it last the entire week.
Mentally I would be mad at myself or upset about the crash and then I learned to be like, “Okay, Monday is really bad. Monday we have a lot of headaches, we’re in a lot of pain but it doesn’t mean we have to be like this Tuesday.” I got better at kind of getting over the hump of the really bad days but that’s not an instant thing. It takes a lot of time to get through that and like I’ve been doing this for a long time but it helps if you are seeing a therapist.
That can help you get through a lot quicker than I did and it kind of speeds up the process a little bit but is there anything else you would like to add before we end today’s episode?
[0:29:59.0] HM: Yes, so the other piece that we work through with clients is the somatic work, so somatic psychotherapy because often times with the concussion, there is also an emotional trauma. For example, a life-threatening car accident happened or a fall from a tree or a ladder where the individual thought that they were about to die so we have some concussion with maybe PTSD.
We also for those types of clients, we work with the body and so somatic psychotherapy is a body-centered approach because emotions have body-centered presentations like if you are very anxious your heart might raise or your chest might tighten and so we incorporate talk therapy and also body-based therapy to help basically desensitize or improve overall stress tolerance to either the memories, the traumatic memories that come up or to things in the environment that will make the person stressed.
We use EMDR, we use brain spotting, we use bio feedback to really help gain control, to help clients gain control over these panic episodes or these anxiety episodes and what this does is I love using this metaphor, so when clients come into us, a lot of times they come in because their emotions are so big. They’re bigger than them, it’s almost like there’s this tornado of emotions and this tornado just lifts them out of their body into this realm of fear and terror and panic and dysregulation.
Overtime, what we do is we help to outrun the tornado. We help to minimize the tornado, we help clients to keep their feet on the ground when the tornado happens and eventually, the clients grow bigger and the tornado grows smaller and so we can never get rid of the tornado emotions happen but it becomes something where the client can then sit next to the tornado, it’s doing its thing, the anxiety is doing its thing and the clients observe it.
They use their techniques, the breathing techniques, the trauma therapies to just sit with it and so they become bigger than the emotional distress and that’s empowering and that’s when a lot of transformation happens because they all of a sudden get their control back and so that’s something that we really enjoy teaching clients and just recognizing that there is an emotional trauma component with some of the concussions as well and it kind of sits in the body. We really teach clients to learn to manage some of that.
[0:32:58.1] BP: Well and it’s so important and we don’t always realize that we have PTSD. A lot of people think PTSD is war, PTSD is like you said, life-threatening. It’s not always life-threatening injuries as well. There’s lots of people that get PTSD from injuries that people will be like, “Wow, that didn’t seem like that much” but they weren’t the ones going through it. You were and we had actually one individual who is on the podcast.
We did talk about PTSD because she had PTSD and she talked about the PTSD would make her feel like she was back in the event. Everything would go cold, if she was outside in the winter, she would feel like she was right there and that took her time to get through as well. There is so many different aspects of concussions and concussion recovery and everyone’s situation is different, which we always like to remind everyone.
Just because somewhat it works for you doesn’t mean it will work for someone else vice-versa but I just wanted to say thank you so much for joining us today and sharing all your work for concussion survivors.
[0:34:04.1] HM: Yes. Well, thank you for having me. It was a joy to get to know you and thank you for what you’re doing to get these messages to so many people.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:34:13.3] BP: Has your life been affected by concussions? Join our podcast by getting in touch. Thank you so much for listening to The Post Concussion Podcast and be sure to help us educate the world about the reality of concussion by giving us a share and to learn more, don’t forget to subscribe.
[END]
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