You Can’t Erase the Past with Madison Thacker
Show Notes:
Dealing with the physical challenges you may face as the result of a head injury is one thing, grieving who you were before your injury is another.
Today we talk to Madison Thacker who was a passionate soccer player in high school until her third concussion ended her career. Her injuries inspired her to chase a career in journalism in order to give fans a behind-the-scenes look at the struggles of injured athletes, especially those who have suffered concussions. She is now a sports journalist studying at the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State.
We discuss what it’s like for brain-injury survivors to grieve the people we were before the injury, how we tend to take out our frustrations on those closest to us, and how to cope with our emotions while trying to come to terms with who we are now. Madison explains what it was like to return to school after her concussion and how being able to do school online as a result of COVID made things easier for her. We also talk about the challenges of accepting what’s happened in order to start telling our stories to others and the power of those stories, so tune in to hear Madison’s!
Key Points From This Episode:
• The three serious concussions Madison Thacker suffered while playing soccer in high school.
• How she knew her soccer career was over.
• The different therapies Madison had to help her recovery.
• Some of the challenging brain games that Bella and Madison have played in therapy.
• What it was like for Madison to grieve the person she was before the head injury.
• Madison’s tips for coping with your emotions while trying to come to terms with your injury.
• Bella’s thoughts on how you usually take out your frustrations on those closest to you.
• What it was like for Madison to return to school after her concussion.
• How COVID and being able to do school online made things easier for her.
• How she had to come to terms with the fact that she didn’t know how long it would take to complete her education.
• How Madison was able to accept what happened and start to tell others her story.
• How Madison is telling the stories of other athletes with injuries and concussions.
• Bella’s story of accepting her condition and taking a nap at a family event.
• How Madison feels like she has a greater sense of purpose to help others.
Connect with Madison:
Contact Madison directly: mmthacke@asu.edu
Follow her on Instagram @madisonthackerr
Follow Post Concussion Inc on Social Media to stay up to date on the podcast
Transcript - Click to Read
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:05.3] BP: Hi, I’m your host Bella Paige and welcome to The Post Concussion Podcast, all about life after experiencing a concussion. Help us make the invisible injury become visible.
The Post Concussion Podcast is strictly an information podcast about concussions and post-concussion syndrome. It does not provide nor substitute for professional medical advice diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or another qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. The opinions expressed in this podcast are simply intended to spark discussion about concussions and post-concussion syndrome.
Welcome to today’s episode of The Post Concussion Podcast with myself, Bella Paige and today’s guest, Madison Thacker. Madison is a sports journalist studying at the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State. After Madison went through her own injuries, it inspired her to chase a career in journalism to share the untold stories of athletes and give fans a behind the scenes look at the struggles of injured athletes.
After sustaining multiple head injuries, playing soccer, she now lives with challenges that have made pursuing college difficult. Now, as a brain injury survivor, she hopes to bring awareness to the dangers of sports through sharing her experiences.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:01:42.5] BP: Welcome to the show, Madison.
[0:01:43.6] MT: Thank you for having me.
[0:01:45.3] BP: To start, do you want to tell everyone about those injuries in soccer and give us some background?
[0:01:51.5] MT: Yeah, I got three serious concussions playing soccer in high school. My first one was my freshman year of high school and I hit my head on the ground and had a series of visual issues afterwards that although I did recover just fine and I went back to playing soccer, chasing my dream of playing forever pretty much.
Then my next concussion came my junior year. I wasn’t feeling well and I fainted down some concrete stairs. I had a lot of amnesia after that for a couple of months, I couldn’t remember who I was, where I was, and what happened that night is still a mystery to me.
My third concussion came my senior year, I was signed and ready to go play college soccer over in Chicago and I got hit in the head with the ball during a game and that kind of ended my soccer career for me. That is the injury that kind of spiraled into post-concussion syndrome.
[0:02:47.5] BP: Did you know that it was the end of your soccer career or did you get told it was?
[0:02:53.3] MT: I had a good feeling it was. I kind of felt walking off that field like, “Okay, I’m done, I’m tired of this, I’m done.” My doctor had that conversation with me of, “Well, we don’t really know what happens, it’s your choice but—” and I kind of made that decision after he told me that as, “Okay, I’m done.” He did help me make that decision but I kind of new right after that hit.
[0:03:16.0] BP: I’m glad you were able to make the decision because it’s really hard to and when you have doctors who are kind of like, “Well, you could do it”, it’s like, all right, a lot of us go, “All right then, I’m going to going,” because you don’t realize the full extent or consequences that you’re putting yourself at risk because you’re young, you’re a teenager. You don’t really think. You’re like, “Well, the doctor says it could be okay so I’m going to go with the okay side of it and keep playing,” right? It’s so easy to do that. After that, what have you tried to help in your recovery?
[0:03:51.0] MT: Yeah, that first year, I spent once a week doing three different types of therapies. The first couple of months after my concussion were obviously very slow moving, I wasn’t doing much. It was my senior of high school so I was caught up in a lot so I really wasn’t affected by much. I was kind of just hanging out and getting by.
Then kind of four or five months after the injuries when things started to sink in, “Okay, this is long term and we got to get you going on some therapies.” I had a physical therapy because I had a slight head tilt in my neck that was kind of from getting hit and just kind of reacting that way and then I had occupational therapy where I had to relearn a lot of social skills like carrying on conversation, we played like a lot of frustrating brain games. That kind of put things into perspective for me of how hurt I really was and how much work I was going to have to put in to just do the simple things.
Then I also did vision therapy for about nine months. My vision was so bad, I couldn’t read, I couldn’t read simple captions on the TV or Instagram or anything like that. I couldn’t read at all for about six months so the vision therapy was the most strenuous I think out of all of them but it was a long year of therapies.
[0:05:13.6] BP: Yeah, for sure. What you remember any of the brain games, could you explain one?
[0:05:20.0] MT: I don’t remember a lot of them but a lot of the times, she taught me how to shuffle cards actually and we would just be carrying on a conversation and if I stopped talking at any point, we would have to switch up the game or try to switch up the conversation so I could do a task and carry on a conversation at the same time.
[0:05:42.5] BP: Yeah, I could see that being frustrating when you’re already struggling.
[0:05:47.5] MT: Yeah, it’s hard for most people to multitask but then you give somebody with a brain injury, it’s a little more difficult.
[0:05:53.6] BP: Yeah, I remember, I did a lot of brain cognitive exercises and stuff and certain ones, which just drive me nuts because, especially like I had bad memory, they do like— you remember these numbers and the sequence and then they just add more numbers and then all of a sudden, I can’t remember any of them now because you listed way too many. It’s like no, my brain is overwhelmed.
[0:06:16.6] MT: Yeah, I remember doing a couple of those number ones and just the third, fourth number it would be like, I have no idea. Now I can try to memorize people’s phone numbers a little better but definitely given me a little more skills in that way.
[0:06:33.0] BP: I definitely lucked out being in the digital age going through this because I text myself whenever someone mentions something, it’s like, “I should look that up” I text it to myself so then I get the notification. I don’t know, I would have had to carry a booklet everywhere I went to write things down all day because that’s what I used to do, I just write things down throughout the day so that at the end of the day I’d be like, “Okay, I remember everything.”
[0:06:57.4] MT: Yeah, luckily, I had a little bit of short-term memory issues but for the most part, I could remember pretty much everything that was told to me. It was just obviously in school is when that obviously got a lot harder and it’s harder for everybody, but definitely was not struggling too much with the memory aspect of things.
[0:07:16.7] BP: Yeah, well, it shows how every single head injury is different. Something you mentioned when we were talking before was, you kind of had to grieve who you were before because we change a lot after our head injury and it’s really common. What was that like for you?
[0:07:31.1] MT: Yeah, I think, because I was playing soccer and I pushed away my feelings for a while and there’s just so much going on with those therapies I was still trying to process just that.
Then, as a soccer player, I mean, soccer was everything to me. I loved every moment of it, there wasn’t much that I wanted to do in my life besides play as long as I humanly possibly could and so when I was taken away, I was very angry. I would tell people that soccer ruined my life and I hated soccer. I couldn’t watch it on TV for a while and a big part of my grieving was coming to terms with that part of my life ending even though I never wanted it to end.
I think another part of it was my social life with friends and starting college. I went from having a scholarship to go to school and play in Chicago to settling for an in state school, ASU and then I was planning on living in the dorms and then I had to move back home kind of out of nowhere because I was all just too much for me. Then I started taking just one class and I never struggled with school before so that was a whole new reality check and I couldn’t hang out with friends for very long because there was just too much activity.
I’d say, I went from being more extroverted to a little more introverted now, but it took a lot for me to come to terms with who I was now and it took me a couple of years to accept that I still love soccer, I still love sports, it’s a big part of who I am and I can’t just erase it because it hurt me a lot but yeah, a big part of it was I pushed a lot of my feelings away about my passions in life because they did hurt me and it ultimately led to a much harder life.
[0:09:17.9] BP: Yeah, I get that because my dad hates horses now. He’s like, “I would never let anyone in the family ever do this again because—”
[0:09:28.9] MT: That’s fair.
[0:09:30.8] BP: He has to blame something, right?
[0:09:31.8] MT: Yeah, exactly.
[0:09:33.1] BP: A lot of it was horseback riding and for me, I get the – you said you couldn’t watch soccer on TV and there was a while, where going to horse shows, being around them or seeing them online, it was really hard because you want to do it. Then, it’s really hard to sit on the sidelines even from watching TV and know that you can’t do it. It definitely takes time to get over that. Now, I’ve been watching the Olympics like crazy but before that, there was a few years where I was like, “I don’t want to be around it, I don’t want to watch it because I can’t do it and watching you is making me miserable.” There is times where I would break down crying, trying to watch it because I’d get so upset.
It definitely, I think it’s something that just takes time, it’s not an instant process. You don’t just go, “Okay, and I’m fine with this whole life adjustment in a day,” because some people are like, “Well, do you think you could have done it faster with the advice?” I’m like, probably not because this is not how it works, it’s not a fast thing to do.
You also mentioned emotions. Something I had a lot of trouble with was controlling mine. From anger to like lashing out really hard at, usually, my mom and then bawling my eyes out while having, have a normal conversation with someone and they would point out that there was tears running down my face and I’d be like, “right”. It’s like, I’m really not upset about anything but I had so much trouble. Did you find anything that helped with that?
[0:10:58.8] MT: I think a lot of the times, I’ve learned to kind of just walk away and not let my emotions kind of spew out on somebody else because that’s definitely, I mean, like you said, you did it to your mom and I did that to my mom so many times because she was always there. It’s a lot easier to do that to somebody who is always there with you, going through this with you in a way, but there were a couple of times that I remember a lot after that first year is just a lot of, “I’m tired, I can’t handle this” or just feeling really claustrophobic sometimes too in situations and it was like, I can’t do it, I really – “ That’s when a lot of the times, lashing out would happen is when I couldn’t handle an activity or I was in the middle of doing something and I couldn’t step away from it so then, it all becomes too much at that point.
A lot of my frustration when – I remember taking a math entry exam for college and I had a really hard time with numbers after my concussion. I couldn’t understand how numbers worked anymore, I couldn’t do simple multiplication so I took that test and obviously didn’t do very well on it. I was like, throwing things during the test, very frustrated because, you know, that’s like third, fourth grade level math and I’m about to go into college and I can’t even do that and it’s not even my fault, I can’t relearn it. It’s just something that I kind of work around, so there are definitely, I think, when I can’t handle activities is when I lash out or anger, just very upset. Usually, I get angry first and then it comes the crying and all of that other emotions.
[0:12:40.6] BP: Yeah, no. I get that and the anger was because I had a really bad headaches so when my head was bad, the anger was bad because they kind of matched and then like you said, you took it out on your mom who is always there. Something my family always says is we don’t take things out on people who we think will walk away, so we take it out on our parents because they’re not going anywhere.
You take it out on your siblings because they’re not going to just leave you. You’re not going to take it out on your friends because what if they’re not your friend afterwards. Your brain just instinctually does that and it took me a long time to okay, I’m really mad to slow it down like are you actually mad right now? Because a lot of the time I wasn’t. It’s a reaction and it took time to stop the reaction for sure. As my headaches went away, I found the anger went away as well a little bit.
[0:13:31.2] MT: Yeah, it’s a lot easier to be angry when you don’t feel good all the time, so it’s definitely something I struggle with whenever I don’t feel well and I am around other people. I don’t need to be around them because it is going to be bad so.
[0:13:46.0] BP: Yeah and like you said about the – it’s almost like when your brain gets overwhelmed when you are trying to do a task, which happens way easier after a head injury, you get really frustrated so that’s the same thing. It’s like all of a sudden you can’t do it and you’re like, “Why?” then anger is just a really common thing but with that, we’re going to take a break. Make sure you stay tuned for our talk on going to school after head injuries.
[BREAK]
[0:14:16.7] BP: I just wanted to say thank you. The podcast is just over six months old and I couldn’t be happier with the response. If you truly love the podcast, please consider leaving a tip in our support the podcast tip jar found at the bottom of our episode description. All tips are greatly appreciated and help cover cost of the show.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[0:14:41.6] BP: Welcome back to The Post Concussion Podcast with myself, Bella Paige and today’s guest, Madison Thacker. Something I wanted to get into because it was a really big part of my life in going through PCS was school and figuring out school and trying not to quit when you really want to, so how was that been for you?
[0:15:00.9] MT: My last concussion was senior year at the end, so that was really easy to adjust in a way, so a lot of my teachers already knew me and knew my work so they really just expected me to sit there, listen, and just do what I’d always been doing. I didn’t have to write anything down or take tests.
Definitely, going to college at first seemed nearly impossible. My first year of college I took one online class each semester and my mom had to read everything for me. She had to take notes for me. She basically helped me along in every way and I had signed up with the disability resource center at ASU and so I was getting extra time. I was getting some notes provided by the professors or other students and so after that first year at home doing online, I felt like I was ready to go live up at school and kind of be a part of that environment and take in-person classes, so I did that and I took three classes, which was a big step up.
I still felt like I was going nowhere for a while. Like I said, I didn’t really ever struggle with school before this so to kind of have that was really difficult for my self-esteem for one. Yeah, so that gave me a lot of anxiety too just being up there and meeting new people and having in-person classes and there’s a whole lot that goes into that walking to class, parking your car, and finding a place to sit that you can see and there’s a lot of little things that most people don’t think about but I had to think about it.
I definitely struggled socially too after that semester when COVID hit and it honestly hit at a perfect time for me because I was struggling a lot with headaches. I’d get headaches walking to class and so I’d go to class and my symptoms would get a lot worse. It was just all out of control, I was quite miserable and I even thought about dropping out because my health was basically declining from it. When COVID hit, I had to go home and I got to do everything online and it made it so much easier for me.
I was able to start taking full-time classes in the fall of 2020 and I took the most I’ve ever taken last semester and so now, I am looking to graduating a year and a half and I genuinely thought like that was impossible. Even like two years ago, I had no idea how long it would take. I was looking at probably four or five years and obviously that was something I had to come to terms with too is it doesn’t matter. The only person who cares about how long it takes is me right now. You know, nobody else cares so I had to come to terms with some of that too.
[0:17:42.0] BP: Yeah, well it’s a big adjustment and university or college is a big adjustment from high school to start with and I find that out because I wasn’t really going to high school in the last two years. Like you said, you weren’t doing tests and stuff and also I tool a full course load in university. I went, “Whoa, this already a full adjustment and I didn’t even be going to school. What was I thinking?” and it’s just finding what works for you.
Online worked really well for me as well because I actually just didn’t go is what ended up happening because I didn’t do well in class.
I’d go to the profs that didn’t put anything online but if they put something online for the class, that’s where I was because I could do it all from home. My friends would come to study and it was just easier than going into the bright lights, dealing with people tapping pencils ,or just tapping their foot or little annoying noises that would just blow my mind apart while trying to sit there and concentrate or humming of buildings because they’re universities and their loud and it just made a really big difference for me.
But in person isn’t bad. Some people, the adjustment online was the opposite reaction and they had a lot of a harder time, so it is just learning how to accept the – you have to do it differently and also using the tools of the school because those accessibility centers in college are way more set up that in high school and they actually help you rather than just look at you and not believe what you’re saying is true because that’s what high school felt like, yeah. College is like, “Oh yeah, this is fine. We’ll give you every accommodation in the book” I’m like, “Wow, okay,” yeah.
You are sharing your story and it took me a long time to talk about any of this actually. This is the first year that I started sharing it publicly and then probably the year before I started telling people in my family who weren’t just like my siblings what was going on. It was a big adjustment and how are you able to accept what happened and then start telling others the truth?
[0:19:46.9] MT: I think it was probably maybe even like this past year or so that I really kind of took it upon myself to share this with others and meeting new friends like, “Hey, sometimes this might happen,” or “I need to be alone,” or certain other little things that I have. I just felt I think after so long of just kind of almost being ashamed of, “Hey, I have this” or you know, a lot of people look at you and, “Oh you just have a concussion” and there’s that conversation too.
I finally was like I need to – this is going to be a part of my career and I need to share my piece of story because it can help others and it can really change the way we look at concussions and head injuries in general like that’s not going to change if I am sitting here quietly and not saying anything and I am ashamed of what’s happened to me as well and I think a lot of it too was getting over that grief because grief makes you not want to talk about it.
It is just like when you lose a loved one, you don’t want to talk about them for a while because it hurts too much and so I think once I got past that, I was really starting to kind of like, “Okay, I’m cool with telling people this is what’s up and this is just how I have to deal with everything now,” but yeah, I think it definitely took a while but once I really started to kind of getting deep into my journalism career and kind of trying to find what I want to do and what I want to write about and what kind of athletes I want to talk to, I was obviously driven more towards the injuries and more towards obviously concussions.
You can’t write about that and also not tell your story at the same time, so that I think definitely stepping into my own element with school and journalism has helped me open up and not be so ashamed of everything that’s happened.
[0:21:41.9] BP: Yeah, I think it’s great and it helps so many people because everyone’s story is different and then everyone relates a little bit to every story, so then the combination of stories is what’s like, “Okay, well I have bits of everyone’s story and that makes my story.” It just makes it feel way more relatable. I find a lot of people going through this, feel very alone and don’t realize that there’s tons of people out there going through it who are being silent about it.
It took me a while to talk about it and then also accept that this is just the way I am. Last week, it was family celebration of life and we had dinners and barbecues and I have a really big family and, I talked about this on Instagram the other day, and it’s really busy and my head was eventually getting a little overwhelmed because even non-head injury people would be overwhelmed with it all. The one day was like family from eight in the morning until late into the next morning.
It was like midnight or one in the morning and I was like, “Okay, I’m done” but in the middle of the day, I went for a nap and I actually missed family photos and I didn’t tell anyone. I just went downstairs to lay down. It was like, “I just need a break” because my head is overwhelmed and I don’t last all day on a good day.
On a busy day I was like, “I’m just going to go for a nap” and my mom walked down and she’s like, “Are you going to come up for photos?” I was like, “Honestly no. I just can’t get up right now. I’m just not ready yet, I need more time.” She’s like, “Okay, don’t worry about it,” and she never mentioned it again. She doesn’t worry, she’s like, “This is who you are. You have head injuries, you miss things all the time and I’m not upset about it," but when I came up, a lot of my family was really mad because some of them are more long distance family and they were like, “Well, you didn’t come for a photo so I can’t believe you would miss them and have a nap.” I was like, “Right now, this is who I am,” and sometimes it’s worth explaining and sometimes it’s like I’m just going to leave it be because it’s a lot to get into, right?
Is there anything else you would like to add before ending today’s episode?
[0:23:46.7] MT: I don’t think so. I just say like this has forever changed me but I feel like I have more of a purpose to help other people and like you said, everybody can relate to a small piece so I hope I related to some other people today and help other people not feel so alone and this whole process.
[0:24:05.7] BP: Yeah, well thank you so much for joining and sharing your story and I just like to say a quick thank you to all our latest donors for the podcast that you allow us to keep doing what we love.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:24:18.5] BP: Has your life been affected by concussions? Join our podcast by getting in touch. Thank you so much for listening to The Post Concussion Podcast and be sure to help us educate the world about the reality of concussion by giving us a share and to learn more, don’t forget to subscribe.
[END]
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