Construction to Music with Steve Gosselin
Show Notes:
The challenges that arise from a concussion can vary across a spectrum of symptoms, while some are more common and shared by many people, not all experiences are the same. Today we are joined by musician Steve Gosselin to talk about his journey of dealing with concussion, the different injuries he sustained, and how this led him to pursue music and give up a career in construction. Steve generously shares some of the personal details of his issues, talking about dizziness, fatherhood, trouble sleeping, mindset and so much more. He also opens up about the task of being more open about his struggles; for many of us it is something we seem to keep hidden and do not share with the world and Steve talks about getting away from this fear. We are also lucky enough to have Steve play a live rendition of his new song Butterfly! The episode finishes off with some thoughts on the practices and tools that have helped Steve in different ways, so make sure to join us for this amazing conversation!
Key Points From This Episode:
Steve's history of concussions and the healing process for each.
The symptoms that Steve has experienced with his latest concussion.
Managing exhaustion and low energy; trying to deal with needing to sleep all day.
The transition that Steve made from construction into music and the challenges that came with this.
The dizzy symptoms that prevented Steve from carrying on his work in construction.
A live performance of Steve's new song Butterfly!
Fatherhood and concussion; the parts that Steve misses out on and struggles with.
Learning to be open with people about a concussion and its effects.
How music has helped Steve and some of the supplements that have a positive effect.
The importance of mindset in dealing with a concussion.
Thoughts on getting better sleep and battling this central challenge.
Connect with Our Guest:
Steve Marc
Barefoot Caravan
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Transcript - Click to Read
[INTRO]
[00:00:00] BP: Hi. I’m your host, Bella Paige, and welcome to the Post Concussion Podcast, all about life after experiencing a concussion. Help us make the invisible injury become visible.
The Post Concussion Podcast is strictly an information podcast about concussions and post-concussion syndrome. It does not provide nor substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or another qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. The opinions expressed in this podcast are simply intended to spark discussion about concussions and post-concussion syndrome.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:58] BP: Welcome to today's episode of the Post Concussion Podcast with myself, Bella Paige, and today's guest, Steve Gosselin. Steve was concussed on the job in 2011 and has had to adapt many aspects of his life to accommodate the mental and physical limitations that come with post-concussion syndrome. Music has been the best form of self-therapy for the stay-at-home dad who performs his own original music as Steve Marc. You can say hello, Steve.
[00:01:26] SG: Hello.
[00:01:27] BP: To start today's podcast, I’m going to start with a question. Knowing you have had multiple concussions, can you explain a little bit about the last one you received and how it was not the most severe?
[00:01:39] SG: Sure. I’ve had roughly a dozen or so concussions, and they've all seemed to have healed within a week or two. I woke up in the hospital for at least three of them. This last one, it was just a little whack to the head by a tree branch, and I continued to work throughout the day. I didn't realize until the end of the shift that I had a concussion when I got dizzy and nauseous and threw up a little bit.
[00:02:05] BP: Well, for sure. One of my concussions, I was in a snowboarding accident, and no one realized that I had had a concussion until the next day where I had a dance teacher call my mom telling them that I should probably go home because I was acting strange. It's not always the most severe impact, which I think is really important that people don't always realize that post-concussion syndrome and the symptoms can start not from the worst hit but just either from sub-concussive hits or sometimes just the way the hit can occur and cause those things to be worse. What do you want others to know about living with post-concussion syndrome?
[00:02:45] SG: Well, it's not easy. I think it's important to learn to love yourself, regardless of what's going on in your life and your limitations that you might have.
[00:02:56] BP: I think that's really important. The limitations take some time to get used to. I’m sure it was an adjustment for yourself.
[00:03:02] SG: Ongoing, even nine years later.
[00:03:05] BP: For sure. Did you have a lot of different symptoms this time?
[00:03:09] SG: Yeah. Well, I have a constant headache, so I’ve had a headache for nine years and I’m fatigued almost all the time. I wake up tired. I go to bed tired. I’m tired all day. I’ve recently had a little bit of depression and anxiety jump into the mix and tinnitus, which is ringing in the ears for those who don't know.
[00:03:31] BP: Yes, I have that.
[00:03:32] SG: I could sit here and think about symptoms all day.
[00:03:35] BP: For sure. There's lots. My symptoms are also a variety. I do have tinnitus. I remember sitting in a university classroom with one of my best friends beside me. I’m looking around, and she's asking me what is wrong. I was, “Do you not hear that?” She was like, “Hear what?” I was like, “Oh, so there's something wrong here because I hear something.”
[00:03:59] SG: It’s not just ringing either. Sometimes, there's like a swooshing sound. I don't know if you get that or –
[00:04:04] BP: No, I never had that.
[00:04:06] SG: Sometimes, it feels pressurized too. I feel pressure inside the ear. It's weird. I don't know how to explain it other than that.
[00:04:15] BP: No, for sure.
[00:04:16] SG: That’s a weird thing.
[00:04:16] BP: The headaches I find are also hard to explain. Are your headaches always in the same spot or did they move around a lot?
[00:04:22] SG: No. Mine moves around a lot. I don't like to say headaches because I consider it to be one long headache because it doesn't go away.
[00:04:32] BP: I remember going to doctors’ appointments, and they asked where the pain was, and it was so hard to explain because my headache was ongoing. It would get a lot worse some days or I’d have a little bit of a break here and there but usually only for a few hours. The pain was always in a different spot, so it was really hard for them to understand that it changed all the time.
[00:04:54] SG: I find there's a root source. I feel like it always stems from the spot where I was hit. That spot is always sore, and I feel like from there it pushes and moves around to different spots in the head.
[00:05:09] BP: That's interesting. I never realized anything about where I was hit maybe because I was hit in many different places. There's no like corresponding my right side hurts because I got hit on the right side, but I know the type of headache usually affects my mood. If I have a headache in the front of my head, I’m usually stressed out or I’m really angry that day. My symptoms get worse emotionally. But if it's at the back of my head, it hurts a lot more but I’m not affected as much.
Also, you said exhaustion. That's super common. I used to sleep all day. How do you handle your lack of energy?
[00:05:49] SG: I don't know. That's a question for the cosmos. I just, like you said, sleep all day. I feel like I could. I get up and I go through my emotions. I find getting outdoors, particularly in nature, helps with my energy. Recently, my chiropractor is I want to say a holistic nutritionist, but she's not. She is also a concussion management specialist and she is suggesting that I have thyroid issues that came from my concussion as well because your strike to the head can lead to hormone imbalances, which leads to thyroid issues.
[00:06:30] BP: Yes, you’re correct. I actually had a bunch of blood work done just a few months ago, checking out all of the different tests that they can do to see how your thyroid is acting. It’s really common that a lot of people have had issues with that, and they've been able to help correct some of their symptoms by either taking different medication or hormone supplements, etc. That have helped. Everyone's different though for sure. My thyroid was actually mostly normal in most of the ranges, but it's definitely interesting. As you continue, you've been dealing with this for a long time for more doctors to keep finding new things, right?
[00:07:06] SG: Amazing how many different doctors go through different procedures to try and find what's going on.
[00:07:13] BP: I was in that, when my headaches first started. It was kind of before they started encouraging people to go out after their concussion. The recommendation when I first was struggling was stay in bed. Don't leave your bed. Well, it didn't work. They also learned that. But I also was stuck in bed. I could not – I would sleep all day, get up for an hour, and be exhausted again. Now, I just handle a lot of my exhaustion with naps. I’ll take a 15-minute nap or a 30-minute nap in the afternoon, just so that I can get through the rest of the day.
[00:07:48] SG: Yeah. If I could squeeze a nap, I’ll definitely get one. But I also keep a loose schedule and don't stress myself over getting everything done that I want to get done.
[00:07:57] BP: I make lists and it can be mentally draining if the list doesn't get completed if you put too much on it. I’m sure that helps a lot. You also sing. How was the transition to music from working in construction?
[00:08:12] SG: It was good. It was hard at the beginning. I had to wear earplugs in public.
[00:08:17] BP: Okay, yeah. I wear those.
[00:08:18] SG: Particularly, it wasn't so much the music that was hard on my head. It was more the audience and the applause and still is. The chatter is very hard to overcome.
[00:08:30] BP: Overwhelming for sure sometimes.
[00:08:31] SG: It’s overwhelming, and it's distracting, and the applause is more piercing than any sound that the music makes.
[00:08:38] BP: I’m sure because it comes like straight at you when you're on the stage.
[00:08:42] SG: Yeah. When I first started, I just started by going to coffee shop open mics acoustic with my wife.
[00:08:47] BP: That's nice.
[00:08:48] SG: She would sing and I would play bass. From there, I met some other musicians who invited me to join a group. I joined a group, and we were called Barefoot Caravan, and we played world music all through DC. When I’m performing or if we're playing music and everything is sinking perfectly, I can forget about everything for those moments. That's the only time that I get full relief.
[00:09:15] BP: Yeah. You like forget, right?
[00:09:17] SG: Yeah. It just goes away.
[00:09:18] BP: I love that. I had the same thing. Whenever I would ride a horse, I would not be in pain. It was amazing. I would totally forget I could ride for an hour, no pain, no symptoms. But my problem was when I got off. All the symptoms would rush in, so it became not worth it. But it's amazing how sometimes just doing something that you love or really enjoy can help block all of those symptoms out.
[00:09:41] SG: One of my old band mates, he said there's the thing, which is the performance, and there's the thing before the thing, and the thing after the thing. The thing before the thing and the thing after the thing are definitely harder than the thing itself.
[00:09:53] BP: That's a good one. I love that. What was the problem with working in construction, just your symptoms, couldn’t handle it?
[00:09:59] SG: Yeah, I can’t. In the beginning, he asked me about my symptoms, and one that I didn’t mention is dizziness. I get dizzy really easy. I used to – In the beginning, I was dizzy 24/7. I couldn't even walk in a straight line for like six months. Then I had vestibular rehab. For those of you who don't know, it's crystals in your ear that help you maintain your balance. I did a whole bunch of really weird bizarre exercises, and that corrected that. But I still get dizzy really easily if I over exert myself, so things like – I like to walk. If there's a hill that's too big, I’ll get really dizzy trying to climb the hill or stairs. If there's too many stairs, I’ll get dizzy halfway up. With the band, I couldn't lift any of the heavy equipment. My band mates to do all the heavy lifting because it just got me too dizzy. Also, it made the headache worse as well.
[00:10:53] BP: For sure. I could definitely see that. I had dizziness when I like would get up in the morning or if I got out of bed or if I sat up too quickly. Everything would rush, and I’d see stars, and colors would fade in and out, and then I’d be okay, usually. But I wasn't dizzy on a daily basis.
[00:11:10] SG: I still get that too in the morning. Waking up and getting out of bed is hard. I get dressed while I’m in my bed.
[00:11:18] BP: For sure. I used to have to flip over under my stomach, push up, and then sit up because the motion from laying down and swinging myself up would cause such a head rush that all of my symptoms would just flood. I came up with a different way to avoid that. I could see the dizziness definitely being a challenge in construction because of safety for sure.
[00:11:41] SG: Yeah. Well, there's safety, and my job was 90% heavy lifting.
[00:11:46] BP: Okay, for sure. It’s loud I’m sure.
[00:11:49] SG: It's loud. The sounds in our construction site are very piercing. I like the nature part. I could live with the nature part of it.
[00:11:57] BP: Yes, for sure. I also find that spending time outside is a great way to kind of take a break from everything, especially mentally because mental health is a huge challenge when it comes to post-concussion syndrome. Steve has a song for us today, and we're going to play that just right now.
[00:12:17] SG: This song is called Butterfly, and it's my newest song, so it's not recorded yet. I’m playing it live here for you guys and I just want to read something that I found online by Mickey D Poetry, and it's, “No one tells you that you will grieve when you become disabled or chronically ill. It's expected when a loved one dies, but you don't expect it when you experience chronic illness or disability. The process is the same. The feelings are the same. The only difference is that instead of a loved one dying, it's like you've died. Your life, your hopes, your dreams, your plans, who you were and who you wanted to be, everything all forever changed. You break your own heart over and over again because you have hope of a restored body in life. It’s like you're dead but still alive. You're a ghost in your own life. You're haunted by your own self, your old life, your former health, and everything you've lost.”
So I’ve been trying to learn to grieve my old self and accept that things aren't likely to get much better after nine years of post-concussion syndrome. The health and wellness practices that I do now are I’m trying to shift my mindset that I do them to keep my symptoms manageable, whereas before I was trying to do an experiment with different things to try and alleviate them. I feel that my energy is better spent loving myself, loving what I still have, and what I can still do, rather than burning my energy striving and seeking to regain what's been lost. That’s what this song's about. It’s called Butterfly.
There’s a magic that exists in a moment of bliss, when from her chrysalis she'll rise. She'll dance all around without any sound, no feet on the ground. Butterfly, butterfly, butterfly. Tell me what is an end. We've only just began. We all will transcend in time. We'll dance all around with no feet on the ground, without any sound like butterflies. Butterfly, butterfly, butterfly, butterfly, butterfly, butterfly.
[00:15:58] BP: Thank you, Steve. That was wonderful. With that, we're going to take a break.
[BREAK]
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[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[00:16:35] BP: Welcome back to the Post Concussion Podcast with myself, Bella Paige, and today's guest, Steve Gosselin. Steve, as we mentioned, is a dad. Steve, dealing with your post-concussion syndrome symptoms, what would your advice be to other parents in the same situation?
[00:16:54] SG: Going back again to your limitations, your limitations don't define you. I think that's probably a big thing. It feels like it does but they don't. Your child will love you if you love them, regardless of what you can or cannot do for them, as long as you show that you truly do love them. I struggle with this a little bit. I look out my window occasionally and I’ll see my neighbor jumping on his trampoline with his kids, and that's something that I’ll never be able to do with my child. It’s really hard on me internally. I feel like I’m not good enough. I feel like I can't do the things that I envision myself doing as a father, but I can love her in other ways, and that means just as much or more.
[00:17:44] BP: For sure. I agree. It's hard not being able to do the things when you watch other people do the things that you would like to do. I had a hard time with that myself. I’m an aunt, so I don't have my own kids, but I love to do things with them. Often, I actually push myself probably too hard to make sure that they're enjoying themselves, and I get to do things with them. Like you said, jumping on a trampoline. I did that once and I paid for it the next day. It was a terrible idea but it's hard when they're looking at you and saying, “Oh, come on the trampoline, Auntie. Come on the trampoline.” I’m watching them, “Okay, I’ll try.” “Do a flip, Auntie.” “Okay, I’ll do a flip.” No, I should not have done the flip.
But I do also believe that it doesn't matter if you don't do those things. There's lots of other things and ways to show that you love someone. I’m in the opposite situation. My parents struggled watching me being the one who was always struggling. I’m sure your daughter appreciates everything that you do. Do you explain your situation to her or does she understand it at all?
[00:18:52] SG: Yes. She understands more than most people would give a toddler credit for.
[00:18:58] BP: That's great.
[00:18:59] SG: She knows when I’m having a bad day and want to give me some space, and I’m open about it. Something that I’ve learned to do in the last three to four years is become more open about my injury. That includes my daughter as well and why I’m here with you right now.
[00:19:16] BP: Yes, for sure. That's great. It’s really hard to be open. It took me a long time to talk about what I was going through. I didn't tell anyone. I was always in the dark, behind a wall. I would smile, fake it. Just I wouldn't tell the truth. I would lie a lot of the time about how I was feeling, especially mentally, but that caught up with me for sure. I think it's really important to talk and include your family and what's going on because it makes it easier on them and on you in the end, right?
[00:19:49] SG: Yeah. It helps them to understand, even though sometimes it doesn't seem like they understand anything. But back to the parenting thing, when I was younger, I was very athletic. I was in a – I grew up in Ontario, which I believe is where you are. I’m not sure but judging by the time difference. I’m in BC now. But when I was younger, I was on a championship baseball teams and I played hockey and I did all sorts of athletic things that I always envisioned growing up and being able to teach and play with my children. That’s something hard to let go of as well.
[00:20:28] BP: I could see that, especially being active younger. So it just is natural for you to want to keep doing those things, right?
[00:20:35] SG: Yeah.
[00:20:36] BP: Overall, when dealing with post-concussion syndrome, a lot of us find products that we like to use from eye masks to ear plugs to a special blanket that helps you sleep. What product do you believe helped you the most?
[00:20:52] SG: It’s hard to pinpoint one product. I guess music, if you could consider that a product.
[00:20:58] BP: It's something that helped.
[00:21:00] SG: Yeah. It definitely helps. But when I was reviewing the question earlier, I was thinking more along the lines of medical products and supplements. It’s hard to tell what is working and what's not when you're taking so many different things.
[00:21:12] BP: I totally agree.
[00:21:14] SG: Some of the things that I think are working well is magnesium L-threonate. I take that every night before I go to bed. It helps me get to sleep. Sleep is a hard thing to come by, especially falling asleep. That’s been helping with that and there's – Primal Herb is a company that has mushroom products, so things like lion's mane and cordyceps, reishi, and ashwagandha. They put it into this powder, and I think that's been helping with my energy as well. I put it in my smoothies every morning. Added to that is a good healthy diet. I cut out dairy and gluten recently, about two to three months ago now maybe.
[00:22:01] BP: Has it been helping?
[00:22:03] SG: I think it is. Like I said, I’m doing so many things. It’s hard to tell what is working and what's not, but cutting out dairy and gluten and keeping a whole food diet as much as possible I think is really important. I’m not a doctor, so I can't give legal medical advice, but that seems to be what's working for me.
[00:22:24] BP: I am also not a doctor. I really like that you pointed out that you try so many things. You don't know what's working and you don't know what to cut out. I did so many therapies over the years and saw so many doctors doing all of the crazy things you can think of from being in a hyperbaric chamber to having lasers pointed at my brain stem, to supplements and exercises, and pretty much everything that you can think of.
It was so hard. People ask what worked. I don't know what worked because none of the improvements – I never found anything immediate other than like actual medications because I would get symptoms from them. But I never found something that was like, “I took it yesterday. I noticed the change today.” It’s hard to know what to cut out when you're trying so many things and what is actually helping. I take 10 pills a day. Which pill is working?
[00:23:20] SG: Most of them take like three to six months before they start working, so how do you know which one it is that started working for you. I think mindset is a big thing as well. I know it's not a product but –
[00:23:32] BP: No, I agree. You did mention trouble sleeping. Do you do anything else for that? Have you tried meditation or turning off the lights or anything like that before you try to go to sleep? Put your phone away for an hour, anything like that that helped?
[00:23:50] SG: No. I haven't really found anything else that really helps. Last night, I couldn't sleep at all. I think I was too excited for this and nervous and whatever.
[00:24:01] BP: It's okay.
[00:24:02] SG: I was up all night for the most part.
[00:24:05] BP: Do you have —
[00:24:05] SG: Melatonin, also I think helps.
[00:24:07] BP: Did you try it?
[00:24:08] SG: Yeah.
[00:24:09] BP: You did. I never tried melatonin but I have heard lots of different reviews on it. I had two issues sleeping. I had – My headaches were really bad, and the only thing that made me not in pain was sleeping. So that turned me into a sleepaholic maybe if that's something because I didn't want to be awake. Because when I was awake, I was very mentally ill. I felt terrible. I couldn't do anything. My friends were hanging out. They were in sports. My siblings were fine. Everybody else seemed okay. Now that I realize how mental health works, a lot of them probably weren't, but I just slept for about a year. I just spent – I felt really bad. I would just go to sleep because if I went to sleep, maybe I would wake up in less pain.
Even yesterday I had a bad day. I have a lot of headaches, so I would just go to sleep for a half an hour and then wake up and try to work a bit and then sleep for half an hour and wake up and work for a bit until my little sister looked at me and said, “Maybe you should take something.” I agreed because I’m not a big pain-med person but I will take them when they're really bad. It’s funny how we use sleep in different ways. I didn't have a lot of trouble sleeping, unless my headaches were really bad and I couldn't fall asleep, so there was that issue too. You get both sides.
[00:25:32] SG: Yeah, totally. I have a constant headache so that I’m sure helps or hinders my ability to fall asleep as well. I lay in bed, and my head is pounding, and my ears are ringing. What do you do with that?
[00:25:46] BP: I used to have tricks, actually. I don't know if it would sort of work. I would do the cold cloth or hot cloth on my forehead and on the back of my neck. That would sometimes help because – do you ever find that your head is very hot?
[00:25:59] SG: No.
[00:26:00] BP: My head always felt –
[00:26:00] SG: I’ve never really noticed. I never paid attention to that.
[00:26:03] BP: My head always felt like it was on fire. If you touched it, it was burning, so cold cloths would help like cool down my brain, and it's always what it felt like. Then I would do that or I would wrap my arm around my head and kind of hold it because I found reverse pressure worked. I never learned it from anybody else. It’s actually where my logo came from of the hands holding the head because I found that if I held my head and pressed like this lightly, it would kind of help reverse the pressure. No idea how that actually works but it worked for me sometimes.
[00:26:39] SG: The body knows what it needs.
[00:26:41] BP: Yeah. It might be worth a shot. Is there anything else you would like to add today, Steve?
[00:26:45] SG: I’ll add to the sleep thing. I did try meditation music for a little bit. Unfortunately, my wife can't sleep with it, so it's like what do I do.
[00:26:59] BP: If you don't have anything else to add, I’d just like to say thank you so much, Steve, for joining us today and sharing a bit of your story and thoughts on living with post-concussion syndrome because it can definitely be a challenge.
[00:27:11] SG: Yeah. Thank you for having me.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:27:13] BP: Has your life been affected by concussions? Join our podcast by getting in touch. Thank you so much for listening to the Post Concussion Podcast and be sure to help us educate the world about the reality of concussions by giving us a share. To learn more, don't forget to subscribe.
[END]
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